which came first the bible or the church?

Answer 1

The Church.

c. 32 Jesus Christ promised to found His Church. "... you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church..." Matthew 16:18
c. 33 Jesus, the Good Shepherd, fulfills His promise to Peter by commissioning him to "Feed My lambs... Tend My sheep... Feed My sheep." John 21:15-18

370-405 The Catholic Church decided what books were inspired by God, and put them into one book, "The Bible". The list of the 73 inspired books, as we have them today in the Catholic Bible, was first compiled by St. Athanasius (c.297-373). This list was confirmed by the Council of Hippo (393), Council of Carthage (397) both in North Africa (St. Augustine was active in both councils), Pope Innocent I (405), and the Council of Trent (1545-63). The Bible was preserved by the monks, who copied it over and over again in handwriting for the next 1000 years until the printing press was invented in 1450.

Catholics are often accused of proving the Bible by the Church and the Church by the Bible. That we put the Church before the Bible because the Church existed first and wrote and compiled the Bible. The authority of the Bible depends on that of the Church.

When we use the Bible to prove the Church, we use it not as an inspired volume but as a historical document.

From the Gospels as historical documents we learn that Christ founded a Church, but the authority of the Gospels as inspired writings rests on the word of the Church. We can define the Bible as "a collection of writings which the Church of God has solemnly recognized as inspired" (Catholic Encyclopedia).

Paul says, indeed: "All Scripture, inspired of God, is profitable to teach, to reprove, to correct, to instruct in justice, that the man of God may be perfect, furnished to every good work" (2 Tim. 3:16–17). But he gives no list of scriptures or any method for discerning which they are.
Internal Evidence Is Not Enough

The scriptures themselves assert that they are incomplete and send us to the Church. "Many other signs also did Jesus . . . which are not written" (John 20:30). "Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?" . . . "How can I, unless some man show me?" (Acts 8:30–31).

Answer 2

1. Torah/Prophets -- the Writings came much later

2. The Christian Church. It was the CATHOLIC Church, folks! Even though the term was not used back then, the belief system was the same as it is today in the Catholic Church: http://www.catholicfaithandreason.org/fathersoneucharist.htm

3. Canon for Old Testament closed approx. A.D. 90

4. Canon of New Testament determined at Council of Orange in N. Africa -- A.D. 397

5. 1517....Martin Luther wants to rid the NT of Hebrews (author not certain); the Letter of James (because James stated that faith without works is dead) and Revelation (too much symbolism/imagery).

6. As a response, the Catholic Church officially lists the books of NT during the Council of Trent. Prior to Luther NO-ONE questioned the list that the Council of Bishops came up with in 397. Luther was the first. Evidentally, all Protestant groups find that we Catholics did a pretty good job, too. Otherwise they, too, would come up with their own version of the NT!

Answer 3

I would certainly think the church... the bible wasnt written until the people learned to worship. God spoke directly to Abram and Noah, and Adam etc... the bible was written from holy ghost inspired writers of what took place in the biblical days. In the history of the first days of man... Therefore, the bible came after. People back in those days, had church in tents and temples, yet had no bible yet. King David, Abemalek, all of those kings that worshipped inside the temple didn't have bibles to read from. But they had church, or what we know the word church to mean...

Answer 4

The church, a few weeks after Christ's death, as recorded in the book of Acts (see chapter 2 for the narrative, but read chapter 1 for the lead in.)

The Bible as we have it now came about 400 years afterwords, having started as the Jewish canon of scriptures, the approved collection of apostolic letters and gospels (which varied by bishop) and some apocalyptic works. It took a council of the bishops to set the canon (the official list of Bible books) into stone.

Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox all agree on this historical points - you hit something the Christian church is pretty well in agreement upon. Congratulations!

Grace & Peace.

Answer 5

The Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) is the story of the Jewish people before the Christian Church (New Testament) was established. The Catholic (Christian) Church was established before the words of the New Testament were written down. So the Old Testament part of the Bible was written before the New Testament Church was established. And the New Testament Church was established before the New Testament part of the Bible was written.

Answer 6

I would have to say The Church only because the Old Testament was The Torah
What we have today is both the old & new testament which =
The Bible
66 separate books put under one cover=The Bible
73 separate books for Catholic Bibles put under one cover

Answer 7

Part of the Bible was written before the church existed, that is the Old Testament. The New Testament was written by men in the church. However, since it was divinely inspired and established in heaven before hand, I believe it existed in heaven before the church did.

Answer 8

The Church

While Scripture is evidence enough for the marks of Christ's Church, we can see in the writings of Ignatius -- written in the first century, within 67 years of Christ's resurrection, by a close friend and appointee of the Apostle Peter and friend of Polycarp -- that the early Church had a very Catholic interpretation of Scripture:


the Church was Divinely established as a visible society, the salvation of souls is its end, and those who separate themselves from it cut themselves off from God (Epistle to the Philadelphians)
the hierarchy of the Church was instituted by Christ (Epistles to the Philadelphians and the Ephesians)
the threefold character of the hierarchy (Epistle to the Magnesians)
the order of the episcopacy superior by Divine authority to that of the priesthood (Epistles to the Magnesians, Smyraenians, and the Trallians)
the importance of unity of the Church (Epistles to the Trallians, Philadelphians, and the Magnesians)
emphasis on the holiness of the Church (Epistles to the Smyraeans, Ephesians, Magnesians, Trallians, and Romans)

the catholicity of the Church (Letter to the Smyraeans)

the infallibility of the Church (Epistles to the Philadelphians and the Ephesians)
the doctrine of the Eucharist , belief in Transsubstantiation or the Real Presence of Christ in Communion (Epistle to the Smyraeans)
the Incarnation (Epistle to the Ephesians)
the supernatural virtue of virgnity (Epistle to Polycarp)
the religious character of matrimony (Epistle to Polycarp)
the value of united prayer (Epistle to the Ephesians)
the primacy of the Chair of Peter (Epistle to the Romans, introduction)
a dencouncing of the (later Protestant) doctrine of private judgement in matters of religion (Epistle to the Philadelphians)1

Answer 9

The Catholic Church

Answer 10

At first there was just a group of followers that were essentially the "church". Catholic, Greek orthodox, etc came only as Christianity spread