why are so many people brainwashed into thinking only jews can claim the holy lands? bible contradiction?

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ashley robinson
S
christians, jews and muslims were all promised the holy lands. anybody that curses us, will be cursed by God. this protection includes muslims. look at verse 7

geneis 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will show thee:

12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

12:4 So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.

12:5 And Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son, and all their substance that they had gathered, and the souls that they had gotten in Haran; and they went forth to go into the land of Canaan; and into the land of Canaan they came.

12:6 And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.

12:7 And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.


was ismael not a seed of abraham. in fact, he is abraham eldest!!! doesn't the eldest inherit the most such as in a kingdom, the first born prince is first in line to the throne. yes or no?

by the way, i am a christian. i just know what i am talking about and sick of the jews thinking they are better than the rest of us. its plain as day in the bible. we are all equally abraham's seeds.

if you plan on rebuking me, quote the bible as i did. don't give me an opinion that is wrong. this is blasphemy.

tabatha, in your torra, does it not say that all non jews are subhuman?

tabatha, you will have to show me "That's why Judaism, unlike many other religions, states that everyone, irrespective of the faith they follow, has a place in the afterlife, so long as they lead a decent, moral life." from your torra. i need quotes. i have never heard this. i have never heard you don't have to accept god as lord, just be moral and you can enter heaven. even people who are atheists but are good people can enter heaven. you have to show me that. otherwise, you have commited blasphemy.

tabatha, you are really showing your ignorance. the jews were not allowed back into the holy lands from around 500 until 1947. wow. you call yourself jewish?

yes, i am angry because we are killing innocent people all over the middle east every day. and the jews are always shown to be the victims and only the jews. what about what is going on with the palestinian people. those people have been locked up in a "prison" and can't escape. they are born in a land, they can't work, can't leave to find work and are constantly attacked by israel. not all palestinians are terrorists. as always, it only takes a few to make loud noise but israel makes them all pay collectively. the palestinians are being treated less than. they are every bit as important as every jew on earth.

eartha, why did you leave out muslims. they are also children of abraham that also inherited the promised land from
God

excuse me eartha, but real christians pray for every man, even your enemies. not just christians and jews. also our brothers and sisters in abraham, the muslims. as i said, they have an equal claim to the holy lands as jews and christians do. if anything more so by being abraham's eldest as i stated earlier. but i will be satisfied with just equal.

Answer 1

Christians weren't included in the Promised Land. Non-Jewish Christians weren't grafted in until after Jesus' death.
If the land was given to Abraham, isn't it him who passes down the inheritance?
Also, the Muslims curse their half brother, so 12:3 needs to be taken into consideration.
Likewise, you don't read further when Lot took off to the land of Sodom, and God showed Abraham the land He had given him.

Answer 2

Kindly cite evidence for your claim that 'Jews think they are better'.

I am Jewish, and I can assure you that is not the case. Nothing could be further from the truth. Judaism teaches that ALL people are equal.

That's why Judaism, unlike many other religions, states that everyone, irrespective of the faith they follow, has a place in the afterlife, so long as they lead a decent, moral life.

From this you can see that your basic premise is totally wrong.

As for the holy lands: it is fact that Jews have had a continuous presence in what is now Israel for almost four thousand years. Archaeological evidence is still being discovered that supports this.

Jews don't deny the importance of the holy sites in Jerusalem for members of Islam and Christianity. Everyone is free to visit these sites, as they should indeed be.

So what exactly is your problem? Because you sound seriously angry, and I can't work out why!

EDIT

Oh, you are just too funny! So my relatives who were in Palestine BEFORE 1947 were just imagining that they lived there, were they?!

And as Mark S notes, he and I have no reason to lie; it's not our duty to go and find the Talmud and Torah and find you the exact biblical references - you're the one accusing us of lying, you go and do the research! Because frankly, we just don't care all that much what you think! The Jewish beliefs about everyone who is moral entering the afterlife, this belief exists whether or not YOU happen to believe in it!

Answer 3

Couple of things:

1. Sorry, Ishmael was not part of the covenant that G-d made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Read the Torah (that's the proper spelling, by the way). Sorry that that makes you unhappy but, whether you believe/like it or not, that's what the Torah says.

2. The fact that every moral person, according to Judaism, has a place in the world to come is not in the Torah, it's in the Talmud. I don't have the time to cite the particular tractates but you'll just have to take my word for it. If you don't believe me try to think about it logically: wouldn't it make more sense for Judaism to claim that it's the only way to heaven like many other religions? Since we don't claim this, therefore, what *possible* reason could Tabatha and I have for lying?

Answer 4

Have no worry, the Lord will deliver them again if they are not there already. What God says He will do, God will do. There isn't any purpose to suppose that they don't seem to be in Israel at this very second. At least a excellent majority of the Hebrew Israelites are again of their land. The factor to do not forget and take into account is God gave that land to the Jews. Anyone at the land that God gave the Jewish men and women is trespassing in opposition to God. The Land Deed is within the Holy Bible.

Answer 5

This sounds very anti-Semitic and as a Christian you are on shaky ground indeed.
That land was given to Abraham and there's no way around the scriptures on that.
Real Christians love and pray for Jewish people and for the peace of Jerusalem.

Answer 6

The bible only promises that Isreal will return to it's homeland.Islam and Mohammad are not mentioned in the bible.They did not exist when Jesus paid for all man's sin on the cross.Check Wikipedia to see when Mohammad was born.

Answer 7

There were some good answers here.

"was ismael not a seed of abraham. in fact, he is abraham eldest!!! doesn't the eldest inherit the most such as in a kingdom, the first born prince is first in line to the throne. yes or no?"
The real answer: not necessarily. In the bible, Isaac was specifically given the inheritance of Abraham, while Ishmael was specifically given a separate inheritance (blessing, really, rather than inheritance). There are several cases of this in the bible (Joseph, Ephraim and Isaac, to name just a few). According to the Law of Moses (which was not delivered until several centuries later), the eldest son inherited a double portion. This is probably the custom of which you are thinking.

"'we are all equally abraham's seeds."

Rom 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Rom 2:9-10
9. Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10. But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Rom 3:1-2
1. What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2. Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

(notice: "much *every* way")

1Co 10:32
32. Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

Thus we see that, even in the New Testament, Jews have what might be termed "pride of place". It is true that all of us who are *in Christ* are equals (according to scripture), but this does not detract from the above verses.

"if you plan on rebuking me, quote the bible as i did. don't give me an opinion that is wrong. this is blasphemy."
Actually, opinion is not necessarily blasphemy (see below).

"tabatha, in your torra, does it not say that all non jews are subhuman?"
The "Torah" is the first five books of the bible, also known as "the Pentateuch" or "the Law". If you have read these books, then you know yourself that "the Torah" makes no such claim.

"tabatha, you will have to show me "That's why Judaism, unlike many other religions, states that everyone, irrespective of the faith they follow, has a place in the afterlife, so long as they lead a decent, moral life." from your torra. i need quotes. i have never heard this. i have never heard you don't have to accept god as lord, just be moral and you can enter heaven. even people who are atheists but are good people can enter heaven. you have to show me that. otherwise, you have commited blasphemy."
Again, this is *not* blasphemy. As a Christian, I do not agree with her beliefs, but they are *not* *blasphemous*. Blasphemy is a very particular sin, and that sin is not present here.

"tabatha, you are really showing your ignorance. the jews were not allowed back into the holy lands from around 500 until 1947. wow. you call yourself jewish?"
As suggested in another answer, Jews have lived in the "Holy Land", continuously, for thousands of years. We know from history that there were Jews living in Jerusalem under Muslim rule during the Crusades (many were killed by Crusaders, but certainly not all) and also during the Ottoman Empire's rule of that area. I do not believe that there has ever been a time since the return from the Babylonian Captivity when Jews did not live in the Holy Land. I am nearly certain that there is *no* historical evidence that such a condition (no Jews in Holy Land) has existed since that time.

"yes, i am angry because we are killing innocent people all over the middle east every day. and the jews are always shown to be the victims and only the jews."
"We" are killing people in Iraq. This has nothing to do whatsoever with Israel or Jews. We are *not* killing Palestinians or Syrians, with whom the Israelis currently have issues, except when they enter Iraq as insurgents or members of Al-Qaeda.

"what about what is going on with the palestinian people. those people have been locked up in a "prison" and can't escape. they are born in a land, they can't work, can't leave to find work and are constantly attacked by israel."
If you pay close attention to the news, you will see that Israel *nearly* always *responds* to attacks, and does not initiate attacks unless they have been attacked 1st. Better than watching the news is reading the reports on the Internet (I like bbcnews and abcnews), because then you get the full story. It is true, Israeli attacks are, generally speaking, far more effective, deadly (and accurate) than those of their attackers. Nevertheless, in *nearly* every case, Israel's attacks against Palestinians are in *response* to a Palestinian attack against Israeli civilians, and in nearly all cases (by *far* the majority) Israel *targets* terrorists and missile launch sites. Certainly, they often kill non-combatants, but this is not by design. On the other hand, it is *nearly always* the case with Palestinian attacks on Israel that civilians are targeted.

"not all palestinians are terrorists. as always, it only takes a few to make loud noise but israel makes them all pay collectively."
This is not true. Israel, over the last few years, has made huge, unilateral concessions to the Palestinians. They removed all settlements from the Gaza Strip - something that they certainly did not need to do and has cost them dearly in Israeli lives. They have removed several (unauthorized) settlements from the West Bank, as well. Finally, they are building a wall which not only keeps Palestinians out of Israeli territory - as you suggest - but also keeps Israelis out of Palestinian territory. The number of suicide bombings in Israel has dropped *precipitously* since the erection of this wall began.

"eartha, why did you leave out muslims. they are also children of abraham that also inherited the promised land from
God"
This is strictly a Muslim belief and is not biblical. According to the bible, neither Ishmael nor his descendants have any inheritance in the Holy Land. As a Christian concerned about this issue, you should learn this for yourself (Gen chapter 17; 25:5-6; 26:1-4). God made a covenant with Abraham, and with Isaac, but *not* with Ishmael. You can see from reading these verses that God gave to Isaac *all* the land and *all* the promises that he had made to Abraham, and none of them to the sons of the concubines (although he did bless them, particularly Ishmael, as seen in chapter 17).

I think it important to note that, although many of your claims contradict scripture, none of them were blasphemous.

As a Christian, it is certainly not necessary that you support the Jews or Israel. However, I believe that you should make a more objective study of what is happening over there, and what has happened in recent history (the last 10 years), before placing *all* blame on them.

Jim, http://www.jimpettis.com/wheel/