Could a Jehovah's Witness answer this?

Question

Well I personally am not baptized in the truth nor am I an unbaptized publisher. My mother is and she has made attend the Kindom Hall since I was 7. I'm 19 now and have an adequate knowlegde of the truth...well I guess I'm flattering myself but it's hard when you don't know much Spanish (attended the Spanish congregatioon). Anyways I've known what goes on behind the scenes and know the people who care about the truth and who don't. I am just basing this on physical contact (talking to them, etc.) One of the main elders, which I highly respect, practically raised his kids in the truth. However, I knew his kids were going to rebel at one point, especially the oldest. This elder really wanted his kids to benifit from the truth, however, I think he might've imposed it too much on them. The oldest refused to attend the Kingdom Hall anymore and has gotten involved with the wrong crowd. The elder had to resign and is now just an unbaptized publisher. It isn't fair why he had to do this.

I know it says in the bible if you can't control your own family, you're not fit to lead a congregation. I know he didn't mean to push his son away, but unfortunatley, his methods were too strong and conformative for him. I am not the one to speak as I don't have a household as spiritual as his, but I know that the brother is righteous and he would do anything for his family.

I rarely attend church now as I am now attending college, but I look at the congregation as sort of unfair. Why should disfellowshipped be announced in front of everyone that they shouldn't be talked to? I think the people should decide or support the lost sheep and the elders should make a genuine effort to discuss these issues and if the disfellowshipped guy doesn't want to, then whatever.

I'm sorry I don't know the Jehovah's witnesses lingo.

Geez guys you don't have to be so hoity toity about the unbaptized publisher mishap. Some of you didn't even read the question right!

I'm not just speculating! I've hung around their family (outside of church) for years!

Answer 1

It's because the elder no longer has freedom of speach regarding certain issues. How may some in the congregation feel if he counselled them from the platform about raising children in the truth? Or, if his son was now known to be a drinker or used drugs recreationally while still living at home, could the elder counsel the brothers on these matters?

The thing is, as long as what he says is from the Bible then there isn't a problem with what he says. However, some in the congregation may feel that the counsel is a little hypocrtical since members of his family have not been a good example when it comes to avoiding that kind of conduct. The result is that the impact of God's word could be lessened because some people may, without realising, be put off the message because of his family situation.

If the elder is humble, and it sounds like he is since he still serves as an unbaptized publisher, then he will know that this is for the benefit of the congregation and will not look out for his own position and interests.

Jehovah's Witnesses have often been accused of twisting the scriptures, but cases like this show how serious they are when it comes to living by the Bible even though it is not always convenient to do so and may, in fact, result in great sacrifice.

It is important that the congregation knows who is disfellowshipped since such ones may have a tendancy to draw others away with them. Maybe not intentionally, but even just through their conduct and attitude.

I hope this helped even in a small way.

All the best.

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Contrary to an answer below, disfellowshipping is scriptural. When a man in Corinth was unrepentantly immoral, Paul told the congregation: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.” (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) The same was to occur with apostates, such as Hymenaeus: “As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning.” (Titus 3:10, 11; 1 Timothy 1:19, 20) All Christian faiths should disfellowship unrepentant wrongdoers.

It is also scriptural for an elder to step down when one of his children does not remain faithful. 1 Timothy 3 provides the qualifications for elders and ministerial servants. Verses 4 and 5 say that they should be "a man presiding over his own household in a fine manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness; (if indeed any man does not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s congregation?)" Once the circumstances have been taken into account (each case will be different) the elder may be removed or chose to step down of his own accord.

Answer 2

More than likely, the elder made the choice himself to step down for a time to take care of his family. The elders work very hard to help those in the congregation and at times, their families might not get the attention they need, so the elder will choose to take a break and focus on his family. 3 John 4 says: "No greater cause for thankfulness do I have than these things, that I should be hearing that my children go on walking in the truth" There is a lot of sadness when a child chooses to follow a different course. This elder more than likely wants to make sure his other children get the needed attention. Also, Jehovah, as a perfect parent had children who rebelled--Adam, Eve, Satan-- no matter how hard we try, sometimes our kids make bad choices.

Many people don't understand disfellowshipping. It is very important for you to understand that this is the last straw. The elders often spend hours visiting with a person who is doing wrong, according to Bible standards. And it is always the person's unrepentant attitude that determines if a person is disfellowshipped. The goal of the elders is help a person get their lives back in line with Bible principles.(Gal. 6:1) If the person doesn't want to do this, they are actually endangering the rest of the congregation, and in order to keep the congregation clean, an announcement from the stage is made that "so-in-so" is no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. Is this unloving? No.
Let me give you an illustration. Let's say a person makes the choice to drive drunk. They get away with it. They drive drunk again. The police pull them over they get their licence taken away. They chose to drive drunk again, and again, and again. If the police don't arrest them and put them in jail, what could happen to the rest of the drivers on the road? Death? It is for our protection that the police do this. Is it crule for them to arrest a drunk driver? No, he disobeyed the law and deserves what he gets.
Jehovah has laws. They are clearly stated in the Bible. If a person chooses to disobey these laws, they risk their lives in a spiritual sense. And they can endanger the lives of others by trying to get them to follow the same course. It is a loving protection for the rest of the congregation to disfellowship unrepentant wrongdoers. (1 Corinthians chapter 5.)

Answer 3

A good person with a pure heart taught catholic since birth, would they be destroyed. I dont think they would be you know. Mainly because if you look at it this way, how many good pure people must there have been before the witnesses. (Im not knocking the witnesses but the current organisation only came into being in the 1800s) Why should they be destroyed if they hadnt been given the opportunity to know the truth? It states quite clearly there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous (Acts 24:15).. and that that the ones who never knew Gods way would be given a chance during Christs 1000 year reign to learn it. Revelation 20 People who shouldnt die in armageddon may die due to reasons that cannot be controlled, but if they do then they will be resurrected and if they didnt know the right way they will be given the chance to learn it. The wages sin pays is death, so you have paid off the wage off sin if you die. And you get the chance of accepting Gods way. Romans 6:23 Also with the second part of your question, if they were trully repentant then yes Im sure God would forgive them. But they couldnt just pretend and try to fool God, they really would sincerely deep in their hearts have to be sorry. Acts 26:18

Answer 4

He didn't have to persey, but there is a scriptural principle. Men who are to take the lead in the congregation, should first take the lead in their own lives, and in their families. Clearly, especially if his son still lives at home, he has ALLOT going on.

I will give you an example. There is a wonderful brother in my hometown. He has at times stepped down from being an Elder. He has/had 2 extremely wild natured boys. They both seem fine now, in part because he took time with them. As I understand it he is now an Elder again. He just needed to tend to personal business.

EDIT

Hi just noticed the rest.

As I am sure others noted, just because he stepped down doesn't mean he is an UBP. It simply means he isn't currently an Elder.

As for announcing it. Disfellowshipping is a multiple faceted action. Part of it is to keep the congregation clean, sort of a heads up.

Example, a friend of mine was disfellowshipped, I didn't even know he was having problems. Turns out he was having a tryst. He and the trystee did get married, and both later came back to Jehovah. However, if the announcement hadn't been made, I wouldn't have known.

Consider, at that point his thinking was somewhat off. The Bible tells us Bad associations spoil use full habits. If I had not known and continued associating with him it could quickly have contributed to leading me astray.

Hope this helps.

EDIT

The only reason knowing about my friends situation was important, wasn't "he made a mistake". He decided to stop following Jehovah. He actively pursued this activity. If I as a Christian am to strive to avoid bad association, doesn't it make sense I would need to know where such was found??

The announcement, by the way, doesn't even say what the person did. The reason I realised what happened, was, among other things, the fact that he himself later told me after he was reinstated.

Answer 5

It doesn't seem that he could be an unbaptized publisher if he were an elder. But if he did step down from his congregation responsibilities, you can only assume as to the reason. It may be that his family needs more of his time right now or he is under more stress and feels incapable of fulfilling his congregation responsibilities. But, regardless, it isn't very nice to speculate. I would just be supportive of him and his family.


Since you have added more, I will address it, too. A disfellowshipped person has had opportunity to correct their thinking and actions and has made a willful decision not to. They are the ones who are shunning the congregation.

Answer 6

If the oldest still lives under his roof and is rebellious, then it calls into question his " Presiding over his home in a Fine Manner". It was his call I would guess to Step down. Just remember Stepping down is NOT a demotion. Being an Elder is NOT to be taken as a RIGHT, but a privilege to Serve.
You wrong that he is " now an unbaptized Publisher".. he would never have been an Elder had be Not been baptized.

Answer 7

Please just put your trust in Jehovah and let him take care of things. We are humans and cannot see all matters and judge from the heart.

Job36:3-4 "I shall carry my knowledge from far off, And to my Fashioner I shall ascribe righteousness. 4 For my words are for a fact no falsehood;The One perfect in knowledge is with you

Deuteronomy 32:3,4 "The Rock, perfect is his activity, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice; righteous and upright is he."

These scripture brings out that Jehovah is perfect and he will take care of everything. I know it may seem unfair but Jehovah is the one perfect in knowledge and is the supreme judge.

Edit:

"Why should disfellowshipped be announced in front of everyone that they shouldn't be talked to? I think the people should decide or support the lost sheep and the elders should make a genuine effort to discuss these issues and if the disfellowshipped guy doesn't want to, then whatever."

When you get baptized, you make a public declaration of your faith. When people fall into wrong doing the brother give there best effort to reproof them. After they show signs they no longer want the truth they are disfellowshiped. This is to keep the spirituality of the congregation cleaned and free from bad association. 1 Corinthians 15:33 "Do not be misled. Bad associations spoil useful habits!"

Answer 8

I'm not clear about what your actual question is. Could you expand on it ?



A Former Witness

Adding this post-script.
I think your question is about the fairness (or lack of ) of the treatment that the elder received. I watched things like this for years in both English and Spanish congregations and wondered the same things. If true Christians are identified by the love they show for each other, then why so much criticism and judging ? I was told that certain people who were not on either public or private reproof from the elders had been "marked" and were not good associations. This seemed, and still seems contrary to the loving teachings of Christ. My dad was held back for years from being an elder, because the other elders said he wasn't humble enough. But how can one person judge whether another is humble ? Isn't God the only one that can judge the condition of the heart ?
As for disfellowshipping, reproving, etc, those are also instances where heart condition (repentance) is judged be other people. I just don't see how it works. One person may cry crocodile tears and be "judged" as being repentant, while another who is sincerely repentant, may be judged as not, and be disfellowshipped.

I'm not knocking the organization, but things like this are why l left years ago.

Answer 9

Do you actually think you will get a truthful answer in this forum where so many people have misinformed ideas about us? You should never post such a question here. Already you have gotten wrong replies.

You don't know the whole story. All you see is what's on the surface. Instead of worrying about something that is not your concern, it would be wise to get yourself straight with Jehovah.

BTW, the elder who stepped down is not an unbaptised publisher. He's is just a regular baptized brother in the congregation.

Answer 10

Why blame the elder. All children grow and eventually make up their own minds about religion, despite what their parent do or do not do. We all have free will and we all exercise that free will at some time in our lives.
The elder would have stepped down but he would not be unbaptised.