I have been told numerous times by LDS missionaries and even a stake president that Mormons do not now, and never have, pray to the Son (who they say is Jehovah), but only to the Father!
And yet in their "scriptures" (Doctrine & Covenants 109), Joseph Smith is recorded as saying a public prayer which I see as praying to Jehovah (who is now said by the Church to be Jesus).
In that prayer, he said, "And now, Holy Father, we ask you to assist us" and "We ask thee, Holy Father, to confound, and astonish ... those who have spread lying reports ... against thy servant or servants".
Further on he said, "42. But deliver thou, O Jehovah, we beseech thee, thy servants from their hands".
I cannot see this as anything but a prayer to Jehovah (who the modern Church says is the Son)! There are other instances of this in this prayer/scripture.
Can anyone see another explanation of these facts?
2007-10-01 10:12:51 · 11 answers · asked by ted t 4 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
It appears to have escaped some that Joseph Smith and his 'scriptures' are supposed to be directly from God and without error.
If he wrote under inspiration that his prayer was to the Father (Jehovah), then it would be terribly wrong to later say that Jehovah is the Son.
Jehovah is clearly being prayed to in the part quoted and, therefore, must be the Father (as is recognized in Isaiah 64:8).
Therefore, the teaching that Jehovah is only the Son is false.
2007-10-01 13:50:17 · update #1
Mikey, The LDS church says that Jehovah is the SON's name, not the Father's.
They say the FATHER's name is Elohim.
2007-10-02 12:37:25 · update #2
Some historians have suggested that Joseph's understanding of the Father and the Son (Jesus) developed throughout his ministry. If you look at some of the changes made to the original Book of Mormon you can see that he seemed to think that they were the same individual when he wrote the book. Later on his belief changed and you can see it in his later writings. Mormons will counter with, "Yeah, but what about the first vision when he saw them as TWO distinct beings?!?" That's just because they don't realize that Joseph recorded this particular version of the first vision many years after it purportedly took place. Other accounts that he left just talked about seeing one divine being or simply an angel of the Lord.
Most of that confusion has been cleaned up by now in both the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants, but you've found at least one instance where they missed something.
2007-10-01 17:27:33 · answer #1 · answered by jungle84025 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
OK I read the whole section. It sounds like he was refering to Heavenly Father as Jehovah. The revelation that Jesus was the Jehovah of the Old Testament was I believe after Joseph's time.
So it may look like he was praying to the Son when he was in actuality praying to the Father.
Make sense? :)
In Joseph Smith's day (or at least when he was giving the dedicatory prayer for the Kirtland Temple {read in the chapter heading}) the knowledge that the Father was not Jehovah is questionable. He also uses alot of "O Lord's" in that prayer as well. There is also a difference in how the language was spoken and written over a hundred years ago. It could also be that he used some of the different names for the Father to prevent sounding repetitious. Or it could have just been written down that way. All humans are falliable. Even the prophets (ancient and modern)
But yes we only pray to the Father in the name of the Son.
2007-10-01 10:29:32 · answer #2 · answered by Heather R 5 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Well I didn't see a answer I liked so here is what I think. I think Joseph Smith knew the difference between the Father and the Son. He did in fact direct his prayer to God the father. He also pleads with Jesus as he knows he as well as the Father hears the prayer and it will be Jesus who does what ever the father directs. Even though we know they are separate individuals they still are the God head and act as one for our benifit. Jesus has all that the father has at this point he however still gives the Glory to the father. So is it wrong to ask for Jesus help when praying to the father? I hope not as I do it a lot. In praying and asking Jesus help I still know and give the Glory to the Father but I also know very well Jesus is also a God as well. I also ask at times for the Holy Ghosts help, I do all this in the Fathers name. It is sort of like at least in my mind of going into a business where the owner, the manager, and the foreman are all present. First the Idea is presented to the owner he will conclude this needs done and direct the manager to see it gets acomplished who then with the help of the foreman does make sure the work gets done. Now once you have presented the Idea to the manager and have his aproval then with him present in most circumstances it is alright to talk to the manager and the foreman about the project there by the owner does not have to repeat the message. Now I realise all three hear the prayer and I also do not fully comprehend how they do but still I understand God is the one that I direct my prayer and worship too.
2007-10-01 14:58:51 · answer #3 · answered by saintrose 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Dear Hairsplitter,
If the missionaries said that no ever prayed to Jesus Christ they were incorrect. If they said Joseph Smith never made a mistake, they were wrong. If they said that prayer should be addressed to Heavenly Father, as Jesus taught, they were correct.
2007-10-02 03:43:53 · answer #4 · answered by Isolde 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Actually, there is a place in the Book of Mormon that specifically says the people prayed to Jesus; 3 Nephi 19:17-19. It shows the intermediary role of Jesus Christ. He is our advocate with the Father and the "middle-man" if you will. We end all of our prayers with "in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen"
I wish I could explain my thoughts better. It makes sense in my head, but I'm having trouble finding the words. For what it's worth, that's my answer.
2007-10-01 10:42:29 · answer #5 · answered by Senator John McClain 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
It was common in Bible times and in early Christianity to use the names of God interchangeably for the Father and the Son. In the Old Testament, Christ refers to himself as the Eternal Father. The God of the Old Testament was Jehovah, who we know to be Christ, yet He constantly refers to Himself as the Father. Christ is the stand-in for the Father. He represents the Father in all things. It is appropriate for us to refer to Him equally as He refered to Himself. It is clear that our prayers, including Joseph Smith's, are addressed to the Father in the name of Christ. The fact that the prayer alternately refers to the Father and to Jehovah does not bother me one bit. He is talking about God, who has all power on earth and in heaven and Jesus is the person that carries out the requests so to refer to Jehovah is not inappropriate.
2007-10-01 11:03:01 · answer #6 · answered by rac 7 · 3⤊ 0⤋
Jehovah is the name of God, a name taken by Jesus as our LORD and savior. Just because Jehovah refers to Jesus Christ as well, does not mean it no longer refers to God. D&C 109 is a dedication prayer of the Kirkland Temple. Prayed to GOD the father (Jehovah) through his son Jesus Christ. I suggest you reread your scripture.
2007-10-01 10:39:16 · answer #7 · answered by Mikey 4 · 2⤊ 1⤋
you have become all of it somewhat mixed up. God the eternal father, heavenly father and god the daddy all communicate over with one man or woman reckoning on the kind you go with to call him. All those call is the main surpreme Father so it is not appropriate the kind you go with for to call him. additionally the be conscious elohim refers back to an identical almight God who's communicate over with with an identical names above. Even different decide for to call him Yaweh. that's an identical eternal father who's usually communicate over with as a spirit subsequently we won't be able to see him bodily. yet remember, even although communicate over with our eternal heavenly father although as a spirit as a results of fact we don't see him bodily yet he does has a spirit physique too. the thought a spirit does not have a physique and a kind is erroneous. Spirits do have tangible actual our bodies that have an identical visual charm like our mortal human our bodies different than that their spirit our bodies are no longer mortal so as that they are no longer limited and can't die the two such as you and me. the subsequent ingredient is I believe you particular that Jehovah is Jesus Christ the 1st born of our heaven mum and dad and that's he Jehovah with the order of the etenal God created the completed universe alongside with humanity. They the two artwork mutually utilising the holy spirit yet they are no longer all equivalent. God the eternal Father keeps to be the pinnacle and over-all boss. additionally i desire you to appreciate that all of us stay in heaven before coming to earth to take up this mortal our bodies and enjoy ourselves and be examined. yet we don't remember this as a results of veil God positioned between or heavenly existence and our mortal existence. that's necessary so one can act by using religion in God and decide despite we decide to do. yet we can be decide by using the thoughts we make right here on earth. I additionally believe you approximately your understanding on Michael. i desire you to offer up annoying your self approximately despite if or no longer God replaced into created as a results of fact we as human do no longer and could not at all have a sparkling expertise approximately eternity. We basically act on faith with the little all of us understand. Goodluck babe
2016-10-10 03:08:33 · answer #8 · answered by ? 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Every time i show a Mormon the truth they wont accept it. All i can do is pray that they will stop being so blinded by this false cult
2007-10-01 10:29:20 · answer #9 · answered by jesussaves 7 · 1⤊ 6⤋
You are in Violation of Community Guidelines for Misrepresentation of the Facts.
2007-10-01 10:17:27 · answer #10 · answered by ASE Master 3 · 3⤊ 7⤋