Atheists: Do you know that this is NOT a debate?

Question

I have no “burden of proof”, for this is not a debate.

I have a “burden to warn”, and that is all:
"When I [GOD] say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. But if you do warn the wicked man and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his evil ways, he will die for his sin; but you will have saved yourself" -Ezekiel 3:18-19
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So, why do you keep demanding proof?

Even as Jesus stated, “None will be given…” (Matthew 12:39)

If Jesus Himself would give no proof (except for coming back from the dead), then why do you make such an outlandish demand from His slaves?

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Answer 1

Clearly, not only do they not know this is not a debate, but they don't quite get that a religous forum exists for people to discuss their religous views. Not to be attacked and have demands made of them. I haven't seen any single people in the marriage forum attacking married people and demanding to know why they can't live by themselves just fine. Yet that seems to be ok here in this forum. Interesting, don't you think? Makes me wonder if they really are as confident in their own faith as they claim to be. Make no mistake, belief that there is no God is just a belief, which means it takes faith.

Belief in God is not about forming a scientific opinion.

Also, to the poster who claims that God is the product of diseased minds--please provide proof, since when you make a statement like that about other people's minds you do fall into being required to prove it. Are you a psychologist? Have you any formal training in the field of psychology? I would also like any scientific studies actually made of that statement and what their findings were.

I've noticed that a lot of self proclaimed athiests love to make offensive, judgemental and wholly unsupported comments about the mental state of people of faith. Apperantly that's ok because they're athiests and the same burden of proof that they demand of the faithful doesn't apply to them. Either that or...they're hypocrits. If one can be bothered to apply reason and logic to what they're saying, of course.

Answer 2

1. What is not a debate? The existence of your God? You're right there - there is no evidence; hence there can be no true reasonable debate, only conjecture on your part.
2. You helpfully provide the quote from Ezekiel 3:18-19 and then seem to think that that negates the need for non-believers to require evidence, but that quite simply does not follow. Your use of Ezekiel 3:18-19 just explains why you want others to accept your God; it does not address why WE should not demand evidence for that God's existence before we do so.
3. The New Testament comprises hearsay accounts of Jesus's sayings, teachings and actions. Just as we say there is no evidence for God's existence, 2000 year old hearsay accounts cannot hold water as evidence, so bringing statements attributed to Jesus into your argument are fallacious for the same reason and do not contribute anything to your argument.
4. The fact that you apparently believe me to be wicked because I do not accept your God might make you feel good about yourself, but again, it is predicated on the existence of your God, for which you provide no evidence.
5. Do you honestly believe all non-believers to be wicked? If so, that is a very good reason for non-believers to attack your beliefs, especially when religious beliefs are in danger of creeping into national legislation in the USA.
6. The accounts of Jesus coming back from the dead are, again, 2,000 year old hearsay and do not constitute evidence.
7. If Jesus stated no proof would be given, then why then provide such "proof"?
8. Were non-believers such as, e.g., Gandhi and Buddha really wicked because they were non-believers?
9. Millions of people all over the world are harmed by their religion when they are told they will be damned for not being able to believe what they are indoctrinated with in their childhood.
10. Would you really believe anybody who ordered you to believe something but said that requiring evidence was out of bounds? No, but only because somebody else got there first and indoctrinated you with this belief.
11. Do you reject science? Apparently not totally, because you are using technology to communicate your ideas; technology which was created through the scientific method, which requires evidence, not belief. Science and not religion is one of humanity's greatest achievements, because it allows us to question everything and put it to the test.
12. Morality is older than your religion, yet you suppose that your religion gives you absolute moral authority over non-believers.
13. Your believing that you are God's slave has no bearing whatsoever on whether I should demand evidence of your God's existence.
14. It is not outlandish to demand evidence from someone if they are trying to coerce you into accepting their religion.
15. The Enlightenment was one of the greatest things ever to happen to humanity. You have the Enlightenment to thank for your freedom of expression, which you used to post this question. The Enlightenment was primarily the product of Philosophy and Science, not religion.
16. You are arguing with people who are armed with far more reason than you appear to possess. These people have generally spent a long time analysing all your arguments using reason. All the philosophical arguments averring that there is a God have been demolished by reason.
17. We have evidence that we evolved from apes. We have known this for quite some time now. People who accept this truth are accepting it using reason rather than emotion. We do not need a God for which there is no evidence to have morality, ethics, spirituality, compassion, art and a sense of wonder at our own existence.
18. Atheists do not look on themselves as Gods, or monkeys. We are not the ones who created a God in our own image and we do not think that we need an imaginary father figure to hold our hands when we make decisions regarding humanity. We possess the capacity to think for ourselves.
19. I bid you good day sir.

Answer 3

Is it a debate? YES, it is.
Do you have the burden? YES, you do.

Go and make disciples..
Always give a reason for your hope..

LOL, coming back from the dead would be HUGE proof, and you put it in parantheses LOLLOLLOL.

I demand proof because you demand that I change my mind. I don't actually demand proof, that doesn't exist. I just demand credible evidence of which there is none of that either.

Outlandish?? It is outlandish to ask for credible proof of the most incredible claim ever?

Answer 4

People who demand proof are of the same class as people who demand belief. Both are a waste and haven't resigned themselves to the fact that everybody is entitled to their beliefs and that it is possible they could be wrong. To assume you are right because you believe it is foolish. Especially since there are over 6 billion minds out there capable of making rational decisions, and no more than 1/3 of that believes in the same thing.
This is universal too! Whether they have faith or not.

Answer 5

There's nothing outlandish about such a demand. Why should we not require evidence? There are so many religions to choose from, the burden of proof is on you to show why yours is the right one and all the others are not.

Can you honestly blame us for eventually coming to the conclusion that they're all just as bad as each other, and all complete crap?

Oh, and another thing, why would you want to be anyone's slave? I'm happy being nobody's slave.

Answer 6

You warned so now you're done right? What you don't realize is that it is you who is creating both the debate and the need for a burden of proof. The moment you attempt to convert someone.

I don't ask any christian or other follower of a religion for proof. Because just as you point out it's outlandish to think that a human could present proof of a deity. Only that deity could provide proof which is exactly what most atheists are telling you and other christians. By your own statement it's outlandish for you to believe in a deity because you have nothing from that deity.

Even if there is a god it's more likely atheists are following the best path. They're the only people waiting for proof from god and not from a human.

What will you do if there is a god and he asks "Why didn't you wait for me instead of following the thousands of contradicting beliefs provided by mortals? It should have been so obvious because I offered no proof of myself as a test to see if you would wait for me?"

And you will answer "But god I thought..."

And he will say. "No you didn't and that was your mistake."

Answer 7

And for those who believe that it is designed to gather people who do not think or choose not to think or ask questions. And the bible does say not to question. George Bush says the same thing. So did Hitler, Pol Pot, Pope Innicence the III and on and on. All ruthless killers say that.

Answer 8

This question is incredibly smug and pretentious. The asker has totally taken the bible verse out of context...the answer to this question of "why demand proof" is right there in the text that was quoted but apparently not read.

Why would someone NOT warn another person of a pit fall, or try to pull them out of traffic? A lot of 'sinful' behavior is obviously self destructive and one needn't be a christian to know this. We are compelled to reach out to others, to try to help, try to show a better way to live.

From my perspective, telling someone "don't do drugs" is akin to saying "Don't play in traffic". It's astounding that some people would continue to do those things anyway.

So answer the reverse, somebody? if the wages of sin is death, why keep sinning? What's the point of such defiance? Anyone can recognize a bad habit but christians are "judgemental" when they point this out. Well, go ahead and play in traffic. Enjoy.

Likewise, no one is christ's "slave". That's a complete misunderstanding of a walk of faith. Ironically, the asker is incredibly bitter for someone who doesn't even understand the bible. I suggest the originator of this question should get off the high horse and go do a good deed for someone else. Then they might understand why we are meant to be our brother's keeper.

"Trust in the lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding. In all your ways, acknowledge him. And he will make your pathways straight."

Faith is about more than fact or the semantics you can pull out of the bible. It takes a life time of steady belief to make a change in the world.

Answer 9

We demand proof because the religious are working to insert their religious beliefs into our laws, government and schools, and some of those laws are nonsensical and infringe on our rights, and are disruptive to a proper education.

Outside of laws and government, if you wish to tell me of your religious beliefs about God, in other words, "warn" me that your religious says that I am going to be sent to be tortured for all of eternity for not believing in it, then you have the right to do that. I, also, have the right to disagree with you, and debate you, and demand that you prove the validity of that religious belief to me, before I accept it myself. And when I am treated badly by a believer simply because I don't share their beliefs, then they're going to be even more strongly challenged about that belief.

Answer 10

Oh, poor, poor, misunderstood, put-upon Christian, being expected to provide proof. You carry such a burden, trying to convert all us evil nonbelievers.

If some nutbag kept hounding me about how I needed to believe in the invisible purple fairy that was going to save me, the first thing I'd ask for is proof.

Don't you get it? You're trying to shove your MYTH down other people's throats.

Since you like quoting Bible verses, try Matthew 10:14. If you come preaching, and the people don't accept you, you are supposed to LEAVE THAT PLACE and shake the dust from your feet.

The idea of evangelism was to spread the Gospel to places that hadn't heard it yet ... not to browbeat people who have already heard it, over and over and over again.

Jesus never said to be a pest. He did, however, say to tend to the plank in your own eye instead of the speck in your brother's. He also said that not all who say to him "Lord, Lord" will enter his kingdom.

Be happy and content in your beliefs, and if others have rejected it, LEAVE THEM ALONE.

Answer 11

Three cheers for the "Bullhorn Guy"!

Thanks for beating your religion over everyone's head. Don't you know that your tactic of quoting scripture will never lead to anyone accepting Christ?

Spread the gospel, and when necessary use words. Let your actions speak for themselves.

People respond to personal stories, not facts or quotes from the bible.

Quit using the bible as a tool to beat people up over what they're doing. They're just trying to live their lives according to the principles they believe in.

Your intent is good, to see all of God's children in heaven, but you aren't doing much to bring heaven to earth by guilting people into believing. It'll never work.