Ok christians, is THIS what you consider "proof" of the existence of god?!?

Question

Taken from a recent answer, and I'll keep the persons name secret for obvious reasons;
"
Yeah, when you get a chance, give me a call. I have several pieces of evidence showing God does exist. My life, my son's life, my wife. All pieces of gifts from God"

THAT'S your idea of "Evidence"?
If so, PLEASE never serve on a jury. You'll be convicting someone based on "evidence" that barely amounts to hearsay.
Clearly, the word "evidence" has a FAR different meaning to you than it does to me.

Answer 1

I'm embarassed to be the same species as someone who considers that "proof".

I love my wife and son, too; but they're in my life because of busting my @ss and making sacrifices because they mean so much to me, not because of some Invisible Sky Daddy.

Answer 2

For me that is not enough of a logical argument to prove something exists. It proves it could exist though. But it is not definitive proof. Here are my personal two main points for believing in Christianity. 1) The odds of: the galaxy having the perfect physical constants, that the sun is perfectly situated and made to support life giving planets, that the planet earth is perfectly situated and made to support life, that life could randomly evolve even when random complex order defies the laws of entropy. All of these odds combined together are incredibly worse odds of there being even one pair of identical snowflakes ever. And I think that most people will agree that having two identical snowflakes is just against all odds, even with all the snowflakes made, that it never happened, or will happen. And yet people believe that something infinity more complex just happened? I guess if you eliminate some sort of intervention, this is the only explanation left. But for me the odds are too great. Something had a hand in creating the universe and life itself. This leads me to my second point, which religion is right. I will go with a religion that had a real historical figure. And since something miraculous happened with the creating of the universe, then I will look for miraculous acts. But there are legends about historical figures doing miraculous things, which history says aren't true. In the case of Alexander the great, his mythical deeds were ascribed to him hundreds of years after his lifetime. The same thing applies for Mohamed. The New Testament was written in a very hostile environment, with living eyewitness still around to confirm the miraculous claims. Basically, Christianity wouldn't have formed, not in that environment, not if the claims it made were not true. And that is why I remain a Christian. (Yes I was a Christian before this, but I always felt there was something lacking in the explanation, then I came across these facts and I am convinced they are correct)

Answer 3

I think the argument that Christian was making was that life is an incredible gift. Who but God can make something from absolutely nothing? The God that made the various intertwining cycles like the water and life cycles is the same one that made that made tiny cells that contain a complex program like DNA. Even today we don't have the technology and knowledge needed to make life. Even if we did it would prove that it takes intelligence to make life.

A question for you; what evidence do you have that God doesn't exist? The burden of proof (yes, I know about logic) is on you. "He who asserts must prove." For thousands of years people have believed in some sort of deity. When an atheist shows up and claims there is no God, then that person should provide support for that claim. Use the Toulmin diagram for your claim.

Support: ???

Warrant: ???

Claim: God does not exist.

When you have a good support and warrant I will be happy to entertain your claim.

Answer 4

Given that O.J. got off, someone like this will only improve the quality of a jury.

However, you seem to be confusing different standards of evidence. Logically, one should not try to argue something scientifically using the same sort of evidence that is acceptable in an article published in an English academic journal, as an example. Of course the word "evidence" has a far different meaning for one person than it does another. Historians, English Professors, Philosophers, biologists, physicists will all use vastly different forms of "evidence" that would be utterly meaningless in another field.

This particular person was using what we might call "poetic evidence." It isn't meant to be specific evidence that would convince you that god is real; rather it is evidence enough for them due to what they perceive as a supernatural blessing in their life. As such is purely subjective, one can't really claim that this person's "life, son, and wife" aren't proof of god as the claim is more of a statement regarding the poster's relationship to his family than to his deity.

Answer 5

If the theory of evolution can be considered "proof" that God does not exist then what makes that different from faith being "proof" that God does exist? Evidence is either accepted or rejected based on an individuals perception of it. For example: O.J. Simpson trial. Any study that indicates that we are far different from apes is not acknowledged as an argument against evolution.
1.Toddler Study Proves Humans Outsmart Apes
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HealthCentral.com - Sep 06 12:45 PMCopyright © 2007 ScoutNews LLC. All rights reserved. THURSDAY, Sept. 6 (HealthDay News) -- For those needing evidence that humans are brainier than the average ape, there's a new study showing that toddlers are better at "social learning," compared to adult primates.4.Toddler Study Proves Humans Outsmart Apes
Health Scout - Sep 06 1:14 PMIn 'social learning,' at least, preschoolers excelled.
Toddler Study Proves Humans Outsmart Apes - Yahoo! News http://news.yahoo.com/s/hsn/20070907/hl_...

Answer 6

Well, he's just giving you the "titles" of his evidence, not the whole argument. You'd have to "give him a call" and listen to the whole package of evidence and then determine whether or not you consider it evidence.

I could also say "my life" is evidence that God exists. But I'll give you more details. See if you count this as proof or not.

When my mom was 3 months pregnant with me, she looked huge, like she was about to deliver. The doctors found a tumor on her uterus that was the size of a football. Well, in the 1960s, tumor = cancer and cancer = death, so they scheduled emergency surgery for my mother and they were going to take all her female organs out at once to save her from cancer.

But my mom was raised Catholic and she thought that it was her obligation to save the baby's life over her own. So she told the doctor he couldn't do the surgery. He told my mother she was a fool and she'd be dead within 2 weeks.

My dad is not Catholic. He was very angry. They had two older children and he wanted and needed his wife. They argued a lot about it, because he wanted her to have the surgery.

So my mom made a deal with my dad and the doctor. She scheduled the surgery for 2 weeks later so she had time to pray for a miracle. My dad wasn't very happy about it because the doctor said it might be too late in 2 weeks, but my mom so rarely stood up to my dad or anybody else, that he thought he'd better let her have her way. The deal was, though, if she lived through this, they were never going to church ever again.

My mom and my grandmother prayed a novena of St. Gerard Majella, the patron of difficult pregnancies, seeking St. Gerard's prayers for my behalf and my mom's. My mom received absolutely no other medical attention during this time, because chemo/radiation were still experimental and surgery was the only option. For nine days, they went to Mass and prayed the novena.

The next morning, my mom woke up with a "normal" belly for a 3-month pregnancy. They went to the doctor and she was x-rayed (which they didn't know was bad for pregnant women back then), and it proved the tumor was gone. Absolutely and totally gone.

My mom completed her pregnancy and then some. A "normal" pregnancy is 40 weeks. I was born somewhere in the 43rd week -- on the exact anniversary of Saint Gerard's death.

Six weeks later, the tumor grew back, and they caught it when it was the size of an orange. It was attached to one ovary, so they took that out and the surrounding tissue and tube. Still, my mother went on to have one more baby, and she just turned 70 years old this year. She has never had cancer again of any kind.

So, in a lot of ways, my life is a miracle. Both my mom's life and mine were threatened with fast-moving cancer. My life was further threatened by the abortion that would have been part of the hysterectomy that would have saved my mom's life. The only "treatment" that was tried was prayer to God. And, as if in confirmation that St. Gerard had been actively praying for Mom and I, my mom's pregnancy went way overdue and I was born on the anniversary of St. Gerard's death.

Now then, that's the whole story, and it's documented by medical records AND my dad, who was a confirmed atheist up to that point, would verify the truthfulness of it as a material witness. (He didn't become Catholic or any other form of Christian at that point, but he does believe in God now.)

I can see why just saying "my life" wouldn't mean much to you, but once you read the whole story, would you consider that legitimate evidence?

Answer 7

What we call GOD is the life force that animates matter into what we call living. It is the difference between life and death. If you can accept this as a definition of "GOD" then you can understand what we are describing by statements like "My life". I think the debate starts when we Christians believe that the origin of this life force became flesh with full knowledge of the creation of all life. We are saying that this life force is in the form of a spirit that is intelligent to say the least and became flesh (Jesus Christ) and gave us a road map to continue our existence once we have left our current fleshly matter we call a body. The simple question is."Do you believe this or not?" If you wish to stroke your ego by mocking those who see the Divine in our lives that's fine. Your life is your gift from GOD to do whatever you choose to do with it.

Have fun.
MooOOoo †

Answer 8

That is what many of us have been trying to get through your skull. But instead of listen and apply what you learn to discussion, you prefer to continue in error by calling people stupid, ignorant, arrogant, misguided, etc, when it is you who misapplies the words of others.
Your understanding of "proof" is in error. Each individual person has his own amount of evidence needed to constitute proof that convinces. Upon conviction faith develops and that faith grows as more evidence is known. The faith of spiritual matters is not limited to physical observation, but that does not prevent physical observation from serving as evidence or as support for spiritual evidence. So your idea of evidence is also in question.
Leave out any arguments of a spiritual or emotional nature and convince me that you love your wife or your children. You can not do it. Use that same process to demonstrate that they also love you.

Answer 9

There is not a single answer about the Goddess being involved so my having a child must be proof that she exists.
Whatever.
To goupinru: If this being existed and threatened my eternal soul with damnation IF I don't believe, then, yes. He is obligated to prove his existence to me. And that is hardly the opinion of a selfish child!

Answer 10

No, that is not what all or most of us consider evidence. That IS what this person does and that is fine.

Religion is not science and cannot be equated the same way. People shouldn't try. It is like comparing apples and oranges.

Religion, in general is based on faith believing in the existence of something you cannot always see or sometimes never see. Jews Christians and Muslims all believe in the same God. Others believe in other gods or icons (ie Buddha)

Again, religion and the enitre concept is asking ther person to believe in something based on faith and 'evidenced through personal experience.

I know God exists because of things he has done in my life and others I know, but to offer evidence that stands the scientific test, cannot be done and that is why atheism and agnosticism are alternatives for those who need scientific based evidence.

Answer 11

Lets again not take one answer and judge the whole population on it.

No, it is not evidence. But, as a believer I can say that you do value your family as a blessing from God. . .and that is nothing to argue with someone about. It is just a different view from your own.

Why continue to ask for evidence, when you and I both know there is no evidence that I could give you that would be proof. . .there simply is not.

I have my beliefs. . . .you have yours. . .so just let it be.