What of Archimedes & rise in sea level/?

Question

If Archimedes were wrong, with his body immersed in a liquid principile, then come up with a new theory. Ice cap melting will not result in a rise of sea level, unless you can prove that no ice cap is attached to the seabed, if it is floating, it is a body immersed in a liquid. Study the principle, cause and effect.

Answer 1

As others have said, this is only true of ice that is floating on the sea, e.g. the Arctic ice pack.

Most of the above answerers are quick to point out that ice in places such as Greenland and the Antarctic is on land and, if it melted, it would cause sea levels to rise.

This is absolutely true.

However, what I find significant is that *not one* of those answerers have mentioned the minor detail that the Antarctic, where around 90% of the world’s ice is locked up, is *not* melting.

Here’s what the IPCC say (see… http://www.ipcc.ch/SPM2feb07.pdf bottom of page 9)...

“Antarctic sea ice extent continues to show inter-annual variability and localized changes but no statistically significant average trends, consistent with the lack of warming reflected in atmospheric temperatures averaged across the region.”

Also remember that most of Antarctica is at about -30°C, so the temperature would have to rise by a huge amount to cause any melting.

And recent studies of Greenland’s ice show that it is likely to cause about 3.5cm of sea level rise per century.

Thus, as usual, the Global Warming Alarmists are being economical with the truth.

As ever with global warming - don't believe the hype.

:::EDIT:::

Response to ‘happy go mucky’, below…

“Your point on the antarctic regional climate not changing was one of three 'no observed changes' at the end of more than four pages of 'observed changes' in the IPCC report. Remain ignorant if you want, but don't inflict it on others.”

I never once suggested that there are no changes in the Earth’s climate, but we’re not talking generally here, we’re talking specifically about polar ice, and its effect on sea-level rise, so I quoted the IPCC’s verdict on the subject. The “four pages of 'observed changes'” were not relevant to the point I was making. And you think *I’m* ignorant????!

“I thought Thermal expansion was the important one.”

Quite possibly, but, again, we’re not talking about thermal expansion in this question, we’re talking about polar ice-melt.

You then go on to reference a paper by Global Warming Alarmist James Hansen who talks about a “tipping point”. This tipping point idea basically translates to: Nobody seems to be taking global warming seriously enough, so let’s tell them all it’s going to happen *much* faster than we were telling them before, because we’re going to reach a *tipping point* that will cause a catastrophe overnight.

Of course there’s no evidence to support this wild speculation, as ever, it’s based on the usual dodgy climate models. Have a read of this… http://www.co2science.org/scripts/CO2ScienceB2C/articles/V10/N40/EDIT.jsp

And finally, I have a question for you that’s far more important than any petty global warming question…

How the heck did you get hold of my username?

Answer 2

Very true about the Archimedes Principle but it applies only to the Arctic ice, pack ice and ice sheets as these are the only floating ice masses.

Antarctica and Greenland are land masses with an ice cap. The ice here is not in the sea and as such it is not displacing it's own mass. Any melting here introduces fresh water into the seas and oceans and consequently causes the levels to rise.

The Arctic can melt completely and sea levels will be unaffected, it's the melting from land based ice that is the second largest contrinbutor to sea level rises (thermal expansion being the primary one).

Answer 3

You're basically correct: the global warming problem with rising sea levels is not due to the melting of floating ice, it's icesheets that are currently over land, such as in Greenland. These are very thick, and will cause significant sea level rise when they melt and the run off ends up in the oceans.

Answer 4

Certainly the ice over the Artic Ocean will not result in net sea level rise. The ice that has melted in continental glaciers that used to cover most of Canada and much of N. America certainly did raise sea levels significantly. Sea levels rise and fall as part of natural cycles. Whether or not man has influenced any significant additional melting is debatable and I would think unlikely.

Answer 5

gjtudor,

Your point on the antarctic regional climate not changing was one of three 'no observed changes' at the end of more than four pages of 'observed changes' in the IPCC report. Remain ignorant if you want, but don't inflict it on others.

I thought Thermal expansion was the important one. I did a google, couldn't find anything quickly, but found this in Wiki.

In a paper published 18th May 2007[50], the climatologist, James Hansen presented new evidence. George Monbiot, a British journalist, summarises his findings as follows:

"The IPCC predicts that sea levels could rise by as much as 59cm this century. [51] Hansen’s paper argues that the slow melting of ice sheets the panel expects doesn’t fit the data. The geological record suggests that ice at the poles does not melt in a gradual and linear fashion, but flips suddenly from one state to another. When temperatures increased to 2-3 degrees above today’s level 3.5 million years ago, sea levels rose not by 59 centimetres but by 25 metres. The ice responded immediately to changes in temperature."[52]

In our overpopulated, high resource dependancy society, global warming isn't as simple as rising sea levels, that's just the tip of the iceberg. (sorry).
.

Answer 6

Your missing 3 points here, including one about archimedes principle:

- ice caps over land
- thermal expansion
- fresh water ice displacing salt water ocean - mostly negligible, but still a factor:
http://www.physorg.com/news5619.html

Answer 7

The problem isn't only ice melting, the problem is that very big huge glaciers are falling and cracking apart, and they are falling into the sea. Many glaciers are becoming Iceberg, falling into the sea in a greater rate that nature itself cant take control of it. The warming not only melt ice, but makes it crack and fall! Like ice in a glass of water!

Answer 8

Hundreds or thousands of scientists around the globe are slapping their foreheads because what you just said never occurred to them!

Oh, wait. Turns out there are huge expanses of land-based ice on Greenland and Antarctica. Good try though.

Answer 9

You think all the ice-caps are floating? That will come as a shock to Greenland and most of northern Canada and Siberia and Antarctica...

Answer 10

Most of the worlds ice is not floating, it is resting on land in Greenland and Antarctica.