For all professing Christians?

Question

Is it possible to be one of God's people WITHOUT being in covenant relationship with Him?

In the Old Testament, God made a covenant(s) with His people.

In the New Testament, God through Jesus Christ made a covenant with His people - those who would receive the free gift of forgiveness, reconciliation to God & eternal life through faith in Christ crucified & risen from the dead - which was represented symbolically by the bread & wine AND participation in it (Luke 22:17 - 20).

Has God ever made anyone His people without making a covenant with them at some point?

Scriptural evidence, please?

Thanks in advance for all polite, sincere answers.

May God bless you.

Safia M -

Thanks for your biblical answer. My point is that there is a certain religious "Christian" cult which teaches that it IS possible to be one of "Jehovah's people" WITHOUT being in the New Covenant (and consequently, NOT participating in the symbolic emblems of the Lord's table). Yet I cannot see any Scriptural evidence to support this.

In addition, Jesus said that unless a person is "born again", they cannot see or enter God's kingdom. This particular group deny the necessity of the new birth in order to be one of God's people ALSO.

The Corinthian -

I assume that you quote from the Book of Mormon, which was allegedly translated by Joseph Smith from "Reformed Egyptian"(?)

Can you provide ANY archaeological or linguistic evidence to support the Mormon claim that this language ever existed?

Nick of Tyme -

You make an interesting point concerning the thief on the cross.

However, I do not equate taking of "communion" with being in the New Covenant if it is NOT accompanied by saving faith (by the GRACE of God, not by works) in Christ crucified. I also believe that it is MOST CERTAINLY possible for someone to come into (New) covenant relationship with God thru Christ without EVER having participated in the symbols of Christ's broken body & shed blood. Take "deathbed" conversions, for example.

The thief certainly exhibited saving faith in Jesus - even if he did not participate in the Lord's table at any point.

Interestingly, he also had NO WORKS per se to his credit.

No door-to-door witnessing, attendance at Christian meetings, etc. Just faith in the crucified Lord.

It is by the grace of God - thru faith - that we come into covenant relationship with the Lord. THEN we participate in the symbolic emblems in order to be obedient to the Lord's command, yes?

Answer 1

Those who "come" to Christ were predestined to ( Ephesians 1)
Jesus says "No one can come to me unless the Father draws him" John 6:44
There is a lot of scriptural references to God choosing us- why does He choose us? Because he already knows WHO belong to Him. We who belong to Him are of course in a covenant with Him through Jesus Christ! The coming of Jesus was foretold in the OT. Those who are saved now and who are going to be saved, were always going to-- because of God and His sovereign choice. Romans 9 is a great chapter concerning this. Romans 11 speaks of "those" the remnant of Israel that is to be grafted back in-- meaning that they were also chosen beforehand and in God's timing will be saved, regardless of what man does. NOTHING can change God's will. ANd as Jesus says nobody can snatch those who belong to God out of His hand! (John 10:28)
John 10 is also a good chapter concerning those whom God has predestined.
His grace extends to ALL of those who are going to believe. So "whoever" comes to Him, was already going to come- as the Bible is clear that God predestines us. Those who "open the door" when God is knocking-- it is the Holy Spirit who gives them that ability to open the door because no one is good and no one seeks after God otherwise ( as Romans 3:10 explains)
I hope this made sense, because your question does go along with predestination- I mean it always comes back to the sovereignty of God when someone asks a question like this. God made His covenant long ago....and we who are saved are IN IT! And those who are going to be saved are too IN IT! (That is why we must share the gospel with others, we do not know who God will draw, we are not to choose who should come, that is God's doing!) But all the glory belongs to Him! None of it belongs to man.

Answer 2

Yes for people that have been in the kingdom and are in a backsidden postition ,were they are they are not in covenant,but because they were once born of water and spirit God will draw them back into covenant,but just down right being Gods child and without having a covenant at first established with you no.And as far as commuinon goes Except ye eat the flesh of the son man,and drink his blood,ye shall have no life in you John 5:53 we are to do this in rememberance of him and he is the life that runs thru our very being and that does have a part of the covenant,being in covenant is being in his will,doing what the word says,spending time,having him be the Lord of everything.John 6:35 and Jesus said I am the bread of life;he that cometh to me shall never hunger;and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. Be blessed Lisa

Answer 3

I think you have answered your own question here. There is no scriptural evidence to support God making some one or some people group His without them participating in a covenant with Him. I am not sure what you are really asking? Is it whether non-Christians or people outside of His covenant will go to heaven or not? If so then the only way to heaven is through the covenant He has made with us through Jesus Christ. There is no salvation outside of this.

I hope this helps. You appear to know your Bible.

Answer 4

In my humble opinion, Yes.
Equating His covenant with the taking of Communion, there are instances where there was conversion without same.

The thief on the cross, in Luke 23:43, as an example.

Answer 5

Everything was given to him (Jesus), all belong to him, good and bad but the bad only to be destroyed, and he is to judge men and nations in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Sending his angles to collect and to crop. So now the point is of whether one belongs to him or not. Because even when the mouth doesn't speak, God discerns what is in a man's heart.

We must discern time and space.

Today we have (False churches, false prophets, false men, false Jesuses, crazy rituals, cults, ideologies, dogmas and mightily beasts) Is God going to accept our baptism of so many religions and denominations? Is God going to accept the offerings of priests who call the pope Holy Father? No.

So would God make a covenant with any of us today? No,
The covenant is with Jesus the Messiah.

That is why Jesus said like: Father I ask you to guard them, those you gave me. They are in the world but they do not belong to the world.

It is also said like: And God (or the Holy Spirit) was adding everyday those who were to be saved.

So there is not covenant with us, for us for we are called and saved only by the love and mercy of God, who knows the goodness of our hearts. This is the time and space we are living.

Answer 6

Symbololatry roughly means the worship of symbols instead of the person they represent.
There's a lot of confusion about the bread and wine, the covenant meal and many answers have cleared up some of it.
Very early in the development of church doctrine (infact doctrine was compiled by the Romans before the Bible canon was agreed on) some scholars wrote some weird stuff about the last supper, which has become an insiduous part of Protestant Evangelical Pentecostal church traditions. People like Justin and Irenaeus attributed magic to the symbols, which was developed into a complex metaphysical pseudospiritual theology by Serapion in Egypt.

Certainly the church has become bound head and foot in extraneous doctrines; most of which are completely mad, which for people like the thief on the cross, or like the thousands of followers who perhaps had never heard of the last supper, or like the many women who followed Him who perhaps never heard of His encounter with Nicodemus, would seem incongruous and alien to their experience of Him.

Rebirth though I think is as essential as physical birth but I'm not too keen about all the various subchannels of doctrine that have been added to it like 'speaking in tongues as a sign of being filled with the Holy Spirit' (Though I do speak in tongues but wouldn't make another Christian feel inadequate or condemned if they didn't). Without rebirth though, a precise moment when a kindling of the human spirit by the Spirit of God enables a person to 'see' God clearly in Christ Jesus as the deliverer from sin, I think it is impossible for a relationship with God to begin. You know when you know when you know that God has shown Himself to you and nothing can untell you!

A covenant relationship I think is most certainly not dependent on sacremental or symbolic worship but most certainly dependent on what comes out of our mouths, rather than on what ritual or routine we follow. A covenant is a two way conversation that lasts for eternity when all the trinkets, symbols, rituals, ornaments, sacramental objects, funnyhats and gowns have disappeared for good.

I wouldn't worry yourself about church traditions that have been made out of the bread and wine because the bread and wine was not meant to be literally eaten. What Jesus meant was Bread - His Words; and Wine - the New Life of the Holy Spirit that is inspired (breathed in) by feeding on His words.
"My words, they are Spirit and they are life" He said.

Answer 7

That is an interesting question, never thought about it quite that way before; but no, to the best of my knowledge - GOD has never made anyone HIS people without a covenant.

Answer 8

I personally do not have the knowledge of the bible to answer your question...but I would like to point out to you that the bible doesn't contain all of the gospels or books. The bible was assembled by a group of men a long time ago with many different religious and political agenda's. There are many books in the public venue to support this statement. I think that what you believe and feel is right is more important than what others decide for you. Remember Christ was a seeker of knowledge and truth and explored many religions and beliefs during his lifetime.

Answer 9

You really need to read the first all the New Testament books to understand this. It's like starting from the birth of Christ to his death and Resurrection. In the Old Testament a covenant was required. In the New Testament when Jesus died for our sins he voided that requirement. All we have to do is ask him into our hearts, ask him to forgive our sins, truly meaning this and he will be with us forever. We must live a Christ-like life. If I could, there is a book I highly recommend that will help. It's called the "Purpose Driven Life" by Rick Warren. I don't usually read a lot of books like this, but I must tell you that it is truly a fabulous book and helped me see exactly what I'm here for and how God is with us each day. Hope this helps you.

Answer 10

God doesn't want you to be a religious follower or part of a covenant, that's why he gave us free will. All he wants back in return is just your faith in him.