If the ancients couldn't read?

Question

then does that mean they weren't really Christians? Because people keep telling me you can't believe in god without reading and embracing the bible.

How about Jesus's Disiples and his followers - they were the first Christians, but they didn't have a bible yet - the first books of the bible weren't written for another 60 years. The bible itself wasn't compiled until 325 AD by the Council of Nicea, as ordered by Emperor Constantine, another one who considered himself quite the Christian and in fact made it the state religion -- I guess by the logic of needing a bible to be a christian, then they weren't actually christians.

What say you?

Barbie - do you know NOTHING about history? The only ones who could read back then were the nobility(and not even all of them) and the priesthood. Even by the mid 1850s, less than 40% of the US population could read, even less for the world population. Check the literacy rates today even - the world is still not fully literate.

Did you actually read the question? How could they read something that didn't exist yet????

Really? Emperor Constantine is in the bible? That's new on me - where do I get that version? Please.

Some of you make my brain hurt - pick up a high school world history book and LEARN please.

The men who wrote the bible were part of the priesthood - of course THEY were literate. Do you actually think thr average farmer, pot maker, farrier, forge master had the TIME to learn to read? let alone the time TO read?

Today's facts alone - http://www.sil.org/literacy/LitFacts.htm

Oh look, a book on it - Literacy in historical perspective
by Daniel Philip Resnick;

as much as I hate wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_rate

Feline - I never said they were uneducated - I SAID that others have said reading the bible is the only way you can get a belief in god - which is obviously NOT the truth.

In real god - nope, I'm the one who earns the money - I run a store. And thanks. Years of college and outside research didn't go to waste here.

TEK - yes, I do realize all of that. However, I was pointing out the fallacy that you must read and know the bible to know god. Not exactly a truth, is it?
Since when did 325AD become the middle ages? yes, literacy rates did drop after the fall or Rome, fell even further during the dark ages, and recouped a bit during the rennaisance. But that still doesn't mean every person was literate - or is today. (You may also be confusing the idea of literacy back then was the ability to write your own name, not read and write a coherent sentence.)

Answer 1

i think your right.....
the only way they could "embraced" the bible was through story telling and passing on of myths etc etc (but this could mean its all one big story- like chinese whispers)
All ancient cultures but read through symbolisms, like hyragraphs & aboriginal paintings, which can also be interpreted in many ways!
i think they were christians but started more like a cult kind of thing, where the majority of people just folow by the heirarchy of followers and the leaders are those who interpret the stories of the bible which ended up being the "book" of!
and agian this means it could all be over exagerated, fiction or far from the truth...
?
who knows, but good point

Answer 2

Pin!
You want logic and total belief in the bible at the same time - people will implode.
The Bible was not written as the Bible - but the words were written on scrolls and hides and clay tablets and then the words were transcribed to others hides,scrolls, and tablets when groups slit to cover new ground.
Plus if the Apostles and Disciples were alive then they just repeated what they said in a new town word for word, as they were alive and had memories. And the Holy Spirit was with them all so the message was not changed.
AFTER everyone died THEN things get dicey. THEN a movement is made to insure actuate recordings were made. THEN books were made.
Eventually, lastly, the Bible was put together from choosing from all the books gathered for the meeting.
Also everyone used the new technology called - letters. Which were added to the Bible, to show the growth of the faith, in action.
Peace.

Answer 3

Neither Jesus nor his disciples nor his first followers were Christians. Nor does Christian doctrine or the Bible make the claim that Jesus was a Christian. The beginnings of Christianity, as a religious sect, was more than a half century after Jesus's death. But people could read and write at the time of Jesus and even before his time. Much of the Bible is based on ancient texts written before Jesus's time.

I don't know where you got the information that the ancients couldn't read. But your information is not accurate.

You don't need to embrace the Bible to be a Christian, but you do need to embrace the teachings found in the Bible to be a Christian. The Bible is an abridged compilation of the texts supporting the doctrine of the Christian faith. You'll note I said 'abridged compilation'. Many of the original books of the Bible are not used today - the reasons are varied.

Your knowledge of the times just before, during and immediately after Jesus's time, and of the Bible, seems woefully lacking.

I leave you with this admonition - Neither accept nor reject doctrine of any kind until you are well informed about what your are accepting or rejecting. And as new info/data is acquired be open to changing you position. And eschew vague or veiled remarks that are intended to incite inflammatory response.

Answer 4

no they weren't christians and no you dont need the Bible if you want to be a 1st century Christian. The Nazarenes, the 1st followers of Jesus didn't believe he was a god, just a man with a great message. Later, people like Paul splintered with this group and believed that Jesus was more than man, but not in a trinity sense. Even later, Constantine--on his death bed--converted to christianity. He was quite pagan prior. Agustus, Aquinas, Ignatious, etc. are where we get later concepts about the nature of God and Jesus. In this century, to believe as this century's Christians believe, you probably need a Bible, because you won't know the stories b/c you weren't there when they were handed down. You won't know the rhetoric and apologists arguments b/c you weren't there when the new rules were decided on. However, I strongly suggest that, while you are reading your Bible, you also read the stories of the many people who also followed Jesus, but had widely varying accounts and details involving his life, death, teachings, and meaning. It is fascinating, informative, and may help you see how much Jesus has evolved over time. Good Luck!

Answer 5

I disagree. I feel that it's a misconception that ancients couldn't read. The people of Sumer, one of the earliest known civilizations, were literate.

Jesus and his disciples did have a bible--the entire old testament, plus the spoken words of Jesus. No, it wasn't compiled at the time, but it was written. The first books of the New Testament were written after Jesus' death, but the Old Testament was there.

I say you can believe in God without the Bible. Several other religions believe in God and not the Christian Bible. So, that is definitely possible. Personally, I think that one needs the information contained in the Bible in order to get to heaven. Does that mean that someone who can't read won't get to heaven? Of course not.

(edit) If I take the question another way...were the ancients Christians? No, they were not since Jesus (Christ) had not been on the earth yet...they couldn't be followers of someone they didn't know anything about. I personally think they knew that He was on the way through prophecy, but that doesn't change the fact that they were not "Christ"ians. Couldn't have been.

Answer 6

First thing: ancient civilizations had various forms of written language [like hieroglyphics, cuneiform]. Second, who says people can't believe in god without reading / embracing the bible?

Those lovely stained glass windows adorning various cathedrals aren't just random art. They were designed to "read" by the illiterate peasants during the pre-public education days [like the middle ages]. As the priests talked about various biblical stories, they would direct the attention of the attendees to the relevant picture in the glass window. It wasn't hard for the non-literate to recall the story when they saw the image--their brains were less lazy than our, with all our techno-gadgets, and did a lot of oral transmission of culture and education. [That's how the Torah aka Old Testament was passed down, along with a lot of other things we now know as "books."]

Answer 7

You forget one thing... all Jewish boys were taught the "bible" to read their language... it was necessary before they were taken into the "adult stage" of their religion. You are right about all the other info you wrote...So the Jewish boys read the Torah... the "Old Testament's" five books... By the way...Constantine was baptized on his death bed... as he lay dying. As a ruler, he knew that the Christian religion was the religion of the people... and to make his rule solid... he made the Christian religion the "State religion." Before that is was the religion that was persecuted and all Christians were put to death when they were discovered. Christianity was not just one "religion." There were many... many different dogmas and beliefs and many different ways to practice Christianity...or the Christian religion. It took years of persecution by the newly established "Christian Religion" to solidify what was to be believed and what was to be declared Heresy...Just because the religion in the late 300's and from then on... is called Christian... is was NOT like the Christian religion we know of today... it has changed considerably... and many times thru persecution and death to those who were declared... Heretics. Hope this helps. Good Luck!

Answer 8

I say this needs a lot more study by you.

Luke, one of the gospel writers, was a physician. He could read and write. He never met Jesus, so he wrote in a journal what he had heard about Jesus.

In the case of the ancients being unable to read, there were scribes and there were scrolls that told of events and rules of law. (Cicero was a lawyer, if you recall.) I strongly suspect that the noblemen couldn't read; that they had "secretaries" or educated men do their reading and ciphering for them.

Just because everyone wasn't as educated as everyone SHOULD be today, doesn't mean that all people were uneducated. That's just plain wrong.

Answer 9

You have created a misnomer by referring to people in the middle ages as "the ancients". That term applies to the BC era. and alternately to the civilization before Noah.

You will find that literacy was very common in empirical Rome, Persia and much of the Middle East. What distinguished SOME of Jesus disciples was illiteracy - Peter, James and John, being of very poor society. But not all of his disciples were so, such as Matthew who was literate in at least 3 languages. And such as Paul, who mastered at least 4 languages. It was the fall of Israel to Titus V which led to the end of Hebrew literacy, among the common folk. This is why Josephus took such pains to pass on a detailed account for the emperor about the Israeli history. They were once a great civilization and their accomplishments were legendary in the ancient world; Caesar wanted it recorded for posterity - hence sending Josephus to create a detailed account.

Furthermore, you are apparently unaware that in the ancient world, the literate would weekly hold "readings" for the illiterate and people were able to memorize the entire Bible and then quote it in typical orations. Paul had to be able to do this with the entire Torah to be a Pharisee. It was possible for a person to intimately know the Bible without having mastered reading, because of the common extensive orations of scripture at that time.

Also, it is important to note that literacy didn't plummet in Rome until long after the fall of the empire to the Goths. Gothic culture sought to eradicate any chance of Rome reviving to punish them, so the first thing to do was destroy literature.

The progression of intellect was a downward flow from the "ancient times" not upward. The Romans had captured and stolen much of literacy and technology from Greece and Persia, but did not have the deep intellect basis to sustain it, so it was lost. The Goths did the same to Rome.

So, the result was the "dark ages" which is sometimes attributed to Christianity, but is actually the result of the Goth tribes wanting to eradicate Roman civilization. On the contrary, for much of this period Christianity sought to educate. This is where the Cyrillic alphabet comes from, this is how the German language was created, this is how English was formalized into a written language.

It is well documented that Christianity brought literacy and science back to the people, after the fuedal period of the dark ages took it away, brought on by the destruction of Rome.

In specific answer to your question: it is generally held by theologians that God holds us accountable for the "light" we have available. If your understanding of christianity is limited to the "stations of the cross" because you are illiterate, but you receive Christ based on that revelation, you will be saved. If you stubbornly reject Christ, despite the hundreds of thousands of volumes of supporting evidence and choose never to seriously consider the Bible, despite being fully literate, then the state of rebellion in your heart is revealed by such decisions.

Answer 10

Darn, I don’t undergo in innovations the names. that could be a funky tale in this subject be counted... you are able to google it from how I describe issues. there became a pharaoh captivated with the sunlight… he had human beings from miles come to tell him its purpose. One guy advised him that our eyes deliver indicators to the sunlight which rotate the earth and leaves a shadow at the back of: which tells us the time. He became very close. Too undesirable the pharaoh at that component: concept that he became loopy and had him locked away till he died. 2 pharaohs later: the Egyptians got here upon that using fact the earth rotates… the hour is placed from the place you notice the sunlight. Our shadows are the minute hand. of direction, back then they concept that it became the sunlight that moved and not the earth… yet back it became an rather close concept. each and all of the techniques originated from that one guy that died in a cellular… too undesirable I don’t undergo in innovations his call. sturdy good fortune.