How can Pascal's Wager be used as an argument?

Question

Hi, my name is Phil

Just wondering... Is saying "I believe" just out of fear of hell really going to ensure salvation...

It seems to me as though Pascal's Wager is simply used as some kind of insurance policy....

I don't know about you, but I'd rather not think of the Lord Jesus as an insurance policy that you stuff in your pocket and bring out at Christmas?

Shouldn't you believe out of love for Jesus instead of ultimate fear of hell? Is that really *believing*?

I myself am a Christian, but I find that argument disrespectful...

Answer 1

Pascal's Wager shouldn't be used for many reasons, but the Christians persist in using it anyway.
If you believe in god "just in case", how are you supposed to pick the right one? There are thousands of gods.
Atheists don't believe in hell, so threatening us with it is unlikely to worry us.
Just two of the reasons Pascal's Wager is flawed.

Answer 2

It can only be used on somebody who doesn't know the refutations and can't think of them himself.

The refutations include:

* The assumption that there is an afterlife with a heaven and hell

* The assumption that the god cares about belief in him/her above all else

* The assumption that if you believe in a god, it will definitely be the same god that actually exists.

* The assumption that you lose nothing if it's false. You have lost a great deal, from time praying to a nonexistent entity (some people pray several hours a day!!!) to morality (your god may ask you to hurt other people) and much more besides.

* The assumption that people can believe in something simply because it benefits them. Would you believe goblins exist for twenty bucks? Why not?

* The assumption that any god won't see through the "believing just to get into heaven" ploy.

Or to put it another way:

What if the god that really exists sends all good people to heaven and all bad people to hell except people who pretended to know for a fact another god existed? then all good atheists are going to heaven but YOU ARE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL. Why not repent when you still have time? Why risk eternity in hell?


For more:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html

Answer 3

Pascal's Wager is only good for two things.
1. Getting atheists to type *Drink*
2. Making the questioner appear truly ignorant as to the obvious flaws in this theory.

You can not there are say there are only 2 choices- no God or my God. Also Pascal's Wager supposes that an omniscient being could be fooled by a disingenuous convert. Then there is the incongruity of a "loving father" smiting those who have the gall not to kowtow to Him to Hell, no matter how virtuous a life they led.

Answer 4

Well, I'm of the persuasion that is is only good to believe in things with evidence, including religion.

But you have identified one of the pitfalls of Pascal's Wager: That a deity wouldn't see through the ruse.

Answer 5

It is an argument for the meek.
Not everyone has the same thought-processes. It is when we begin to question out of curiousity, without any rancour, that we become willing to learn. We live in a fear-filled world, is it any wonder someone somewhere would think that? Perhaps at one point or other, we all thought that thought.

It is a human thing. That is all.

Answer 6

Pascal's Wager should be looked at from another perspective.

If I were an atheist, I would thoroughly investigate the existence of God before I reject the possibility of his existence. That rejection must be based on undeniable evidence that there is no God "beyond any shadow of doubt."

There is just too much to lose if I make a mistake.

Answer 7

Yes, you are correct. Pascal probably never intended for his argument to be used as it is. As you may know, these were rough drafts found in his home after he died. Who knows for sure what he would have written if he had lived.

Answer 8

Fear is a God given emotion to motivate us to flee danger. I've believed in God ever since I can remember but when I realized my course was leading me to hell I called out to God & He heard my call & saved me, so it was the fear of going to hell that drove me to Jesus open arms that showed how to love Him.The fear of the Lord is the begining of wisdom. Amen!!

Answer 9

"Shouldn't you believe out of love for Jesus instead of ultimate fear of hell?"

That is not possible.
The threat of hell is always there - there is no freedom to love your brand of invisible sky critter.
You suck up to 'him' or you're destined for an eternity in hell.
That is not love, my friend.
That right there is easily recognised as FEAR.

How can you 'love' someone who has a gun to your head screaming like a banshee: DO YOU LOVE ME? YOU'D BETTER OR I'LL SEND YOU TO HELL. TELL ME YOU LOVE ME. I CAN'T HEAR YOU. TELL ME AGAIN over and over and over, ad nauseam.
You can't love a sadistic slave master like that.

I hear fundies talk of 'unconditional love' (UL) and I wonder if their UL is the same as their god's.
Do they only love their children if they're good?
If their children misbehave to they send them out into the world and ignore them for the rest of their lives?
LOLz

I think fundies are sickos.

Answer 10

You can't love Jesus until you realize what a sinner you are and how right it would be of God to send you to hell.

Then if you knew that that's where you are going to go when you die then you would fear going there.

Then that's when you would repent and believe that Jesus gave his life for you and when you believed then you would love him and give him your whole life.

edit:

Becoming a believer is messy.