Why is it Scripture and Tradition for Catholics and Eastern Orthodox, but not you Protestants?

Question

The Protestant movement arose due to the seen "need" for Christianity to return to the Primitive Church, and part of this was Scripture Only movement instead of Scripture AND Tradition.

My question is, how can anyone justify NOT including Tradition when it WAS the basis of the Primitive Church? One has to remember that no New Testament Scripture was written down until AT LEAST 30 years after Jesus died (and these were only Paul's Epistles... the Gospels were written starting some 60-100 years after Jesus died). New Testament Scripture wasn't even recorded to start with! And although inspired by God, it certainly didn’t arrive by fax directly from Him! I’m not talking about Tradition like the type of Mass or the little hat the Pope wears either, speaking of the “hidden wisdom of God, ordained before the ages, spoken in a mystery” as declared by Paul. The secret Gnosis of God, which is our birthright as children of God, that of God in us, as we are His children, which the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic churches recognize, the Tradition that God made, not men.

Tradition is JUST as important, for it was this Tradition which built the Primitive Church right after Jesus Christ died. Tradition is the direct revelation of God and Jesus Christ to the Apostles! Also remember, Tradition are the direct hidden teachings of the Mysteries of Christ and God and the Kingdom of Heaven, direct revelation coming from Jesus Christ to Apostle, and Apostles to disciples. The Mysteries as said by Jesus Christ, those words that the 12 yearned to but were not ready: John 16: 11-13 “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.” As Paul said, most Christians are carnal, and cannot bear the truth of the Mysteries, as they are babes in Christ. There are levels of Christianity, this is a truth that no one seems to want to recognize! Some Christians are more highly developed spiritually than others. Thus, we have the Apostolic Tradition that Catholic and Orthodox modern churches are based on, which is the direct Gnosis of God and Jesus Christ. Once you have direct Gnosis, once you have found the Mystery of the Kingdom of God, you are instantly and forever changed. The Catholic and Orthodox churches are the OLDEST, and hence, the REMAINDER of the Primitive Catholic (Universal) Church, the only true Church. Hence, Tradition IS truth as much as Scripture is!

The end result of the Mystery is... God within YOU, for ye are the Temple of God. God is in us, as He was in Jesus Christ. The only difference is, we only share the nature of God, while Jesus Christ had His essence. Truly, we are created in the image of God, and we become partakers in the Divine nature through Jesus Christ, as God descended to Man through Jesus Christ, so Man could ascend to God and become partakers of the Divine nature and thus gods (small g), reconcile us to the Image of God which everyone is born with. He sheds Light on that realization, so that when you realize, you cannot do anything but the will of God, since His will becomes your will, when you realize God is within you, and always has been. It is ignorance of this fact that leads to sin, and turning away from God.

Agreed F. Joseph! Truly the universal (catholic) Church and those of us who make it up, are the Light of God shining in this world. We are in the world, but not of the world.

Linda W, I ain't a Mormon, thanks. God became man, that man may become gods... said by both St. Athanasius and St. Thomas Aquinas. This was the fatal flaw of Adam and Eve... they thought they could become gods by themselves, which is why they were banished from the Garden. It is only when God gathers His Church to Himself through the blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, that we are able to be redeemed in the Image of God that we are born with, and again walk in the Garden with God. God calls us to Him through Jesus Christ to have a closer relationship with Him than Adam and Eve did. Adam and Eve were perfect before they fell, salvation is returning to that innocent perfection: "Be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect'. This is Theosis, Divinization of Man, reconciled back to our rightful place with God, this was always His plan through Jesus Christ.

So yes, Man becoming gods, heirs to God through Jesus Christ by adoption, is entirely Biblical.

eturt, the King James Version is an imperfect translation. Many Protestants don't accept the Apocrypha, yet those KJV Only Protestants probably don't even know that the Apocrypha were a part of the original 1611 printing.

The translations the Catholic Church uses are FAR older, and thus more authentic. The Catholic Church translation has at least 1000 years on the Textus Receptus used to translate the KJV, which is why it is imperfect.

Bodhidave, that union, unmediated interaction with God, is a basis of the Catholic faith. Read of the purgative, illumative and unitive ways, different ways for those on different levels of Christianity to reach out and unify directly with God. There is no greater experience on this earth, I was changed in 15 timeless seconds from my intimate communion of God, where I was in the most indescribable, perfect love possible, it's not even imaginable. Such is the richness of the Catholic and Orthodox traditions.

A. Qurius Muse, read again what I said. Tradition SHOWS the way to the Gnosis of God, the true spiritual, direct communion with Him. It is spiritual ecstasy, Baptsim of the Holy Spirit with fire, enlightenment. Many Catholic saints regularly had the same direct experiences of God, St. Francis of Assisi and Teresa of Avila two who immediately come to mind.

So, what I said, and what you said, are not different, and neither is Tradition. Tradition, DIRECT REVELATION FROM GOD TO MAN, is what I am speaking of. This is the true Apostolic Tradition, and this is the Gnosis (knowledge) of God that He passes directly to His Church through His Holy Spirit.

His Church IS the holy catholic Church. Catholic doesn't mean only ROMAN Catholic or Orthodox, it simply means Universal, which means everyone who is included in the Spiritual Israel, all of us who, through Jesus Christ, are Christian Jews, the true Israel.

Make sense?

Steve Amato, the American Evangelical movement is at most 100-150 years old. The catholic (universal) Church goes back to Pentecost. This is the true evangelical Christianity.

Which one wins, my friend?

Hope you get the answer right.

Answer 1

Well most of all they believe what they are taught, many many protestants have been taught That tradition is a bad word and that Catholics are lost.

Even many pastors are just products of the bible college that they attended.

If we can be better witnesses to the world that Catholics love Jesus and pray and worship in Spirit and truth. Be a light whoever you are as a Roman Catholic, Speak up for your faith, share the gospel and your faith freely wherever you are.

Too many of us are silent about our lives as Christians and it leaves the protestants with the impression that they are right about us, that we are not saved or we would want to share the good news with others.

Answer 2

The Protestant position simply makes no theological sense when compared with biblical teaching.

There is no instruction in the written Word that it is the entire Word not that should be the only rule of faith. The fact is that the Scriptures teach the exact opposite of this view. St. Paul teaches that the oral as well as the written Word are Sacred Traditions that one should hold fast to. Scriptures teach that not all is contained of what Christ taught in the Scriptures but also that we can still find comfort in the teaching, in that, the Holy Spirit will lead the Church to all truth. We also see from Scripture that there is only one book that claims inspiration, which is St. John’s Apocalypse, yet we can trust in the authority of the Church of the inspiration of all the written Word. It is Sacred Tradition that claims the inspiration of Scriptures which Protestants accept yet they deny the authority of the Church despite the Bible teaching this same authority. There is no consistency to the doctrine of Sola Scriptura as the Bible would not be believed or have any authority if it was not for the Church under the authority of Christ and the inspiration through council to proclaim it the Word of God.

In Christ
Fr. Joseph

Answer 3

You are very wise.

Protestant Christians outwardly claim to reject tradition, yet their own particular beliefs and practices actually constitute a unique and novel faith tradition ... of their very own making.

This goes against the declared protestant doctrines of "faith alone" and "scripture alone" and sets up a harmful internal conflict within the "Body of Christ" that leads only to division and strife.

Most people would also define this as a lie, which is a sin ... something which typically requires both an apology and authentic repentance ... in order to make amends ... and obtain forgiveness from God.

What are they waiting for? Judgment Day?

Answer 4

Both declare that the opposite does now not comply with the fullness of Apostolic culture and that the real Church is vital to interpret and follow the Bible within the context of Apostolic Tradition Catholicism says that Eastern Orthodoxy,although it has and keeps practically all of Apostolic Tradition, has now not been open to the Apostolic culture of the papacy's Pope of (Old)Rome as Chief steward of the Church,vicar of Christ,Universal Pastor with common jurisdiction and as infallible beneath exact stipulations as side of the infalliblity and divine steering of the Church. The Filioque, Assumption and Immaculate Conception could even be regarded as places of apostolic culture that the east has now not but authorized. The variations of doctrine a few of the numerous Protestant traditions is such a lot better than the variants in doctrine among the catholic and e orthodox Churches that I suppose the assessment is insufficient The Catholic Church insists at the solidarity of Bible,Apostolic culture and Church and elements to the divisions a few of the canonical and non canonical Orthodox as proof that Apostolic culture by myself( and hence incomplete) isn't sufficient however that the Church with complete magisterium(educating officeauthority) could also be vital for solidarity and constancy to Bile and the Apostolic culture out of which it got here for it's the Chruc,directed by means of God, who discerns Scripture(canon) and Apostolic Tradition.

Answer 5

The essence of the Protestant understanding is that our relationship with the Divine is to be unmediated. All individuals are called upon to meet God in their direct experience.

EDIT: I do know that experience, personally, and you are absolutely right, Christine -- there is NOTHING more self-authenticating, nothing more obvious and sober in its patent, unparalleled worth. My own encounters with that experience have occurred primarily in conjunction with intensive monastic retreats, particularly in Zen Buddhist temples. I wrote a doctoral dissertation on the procedural identities in cultivating its occurrence that can be demonstrated between Soto Zen shikantaza practice and apophatic Christian contemplative prayer.

So, yes, it is indeed the basis of faith ... across centuries and across cultures. I have immense respect for the Orthodox and Catholic contemplative realizations of that experiential foundation of all truly healthy human religiousness ... as I do for the same experiential realization as it's been uncovered among the Protestant Society of Friends, in Neoplatonism, in Kabbalistic Judaism, in Vedantic Hinduism, in Vipassana Buddhism, and in many other profoundly rich religious cultural traditions.

It is very much my sense that that experiential realization -- available through the practical spiritual instructions such traditions have preserved and transmitted for its cultivation -- is humanity's only hope.
.

Answer 6

Much of post-Biblical Hyper-institutionalized Christianity as reflected in Catholicism and Orthodox Christianity outright disqualify themselves from any legitimacy in spiritual matters seeing as they deviate from Biblical truth in an heretical manner on many points of doctrine taught by the Bible.

Their claim of traditional superiority is just like that of the scribes and pharisees of Jesus' day, who ended up crucifying Christ (much as they recrucifying him every week in their "mass"), and persecuted the apostles, much as they persecute evangelical christians today.

Answer 7

Most of them believe the KJV is the inerrant word of God. They don't Know the history of their bible a translation of a translation of a translation and thats just the start of their errors.

Answer 8

Men do not become gods, Mormon. Not in Christianity.

Answer 9

Matthew 15
8" 'These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
9They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.

Answer 10

Because God has nothing to do with religion.

You praise religious tradition, little do you realize that it is religious tradition that caused religious leaders to place their own laws above God's.

Matthew 15:1-14

"Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

[Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand: Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up. Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

It is religion and its tradition that prevents people from directly knowing God because those who follow it make the religion, the religious leaders, the church, and the scriptures themselves gods - as if it they were equal to God the Christ - that those who worship the true and the living God have to go through them to get to God rather than directly.

Christ said in John 14.6, " I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

When individuals think they have to go through the church, fall in line with religious traditions, or go to a religious teacher to commune with God, they have made those entities equal to Christ.

Christ said in John 4.23-24:

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth."

In this text, worship is direct communion with God in spirit through the Spirit of God. It is a direct relationship of sons of God who is born again through Christ.

Christ said:

John 14.16,17; John 16.13.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

Although He was speaking to the apostles, this relationship was not limited to them, it was available to all who are born of the Spirit.

John 1:1-13

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

There was a man sent from God, whose name [was] John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe. He was not that Light, but [was sent] to bear witness of that Light. [That] was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:5-6

'Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

As for the Catholic and the Orthodox Church, they are NOT the true church. The true Church are all sons of God who are born again of the Spirit; who are written in the Book of Life (which includes all angels who did not invert in the first fall).

Paul speaks of the hidden wisdom of God that can only be revealed by His Spirit to the understanding of sons of God; not religious men. This is taught by God the Holy Spirit DIRECTLY - NOT THROUGH MEN, TRADITION, OR ANY RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATION.

The bottom line is this, churches and religious organizations are doing more damage to the kingdom of God than Satan ever could, because it is through such institutions that men get the wrong information about God.

Men would rather consult a pastor or a priest first than to have direct communion with God.

Why?

Because they are not in communion with God and cannot hear His voice. Those that can hear God's voice ARE taught by God DIRECTLY.

John 10:27

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:"