Does this scripture have you lean towards Pre-Trib?

Question

1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Notice it speaks of the Lords coming, with ALL His saints. Meaning at His second coming, we who are saved will be with Him. Meaning the rapture would happen beforehand, and when the rapture comes the Bible says we will meet Him in the clouds, it is not speaking of his second coming then, nor His appearing, just that we will meet Him in the clouds....am I right about this? Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

p.s I know when it comes to this topic it is very debateable-- so I am not saying this IS right. I am not saying it is a fact we will be raptured before the Tribulation. But I lean towards pre trib more than post trib most of the time when studying the verses....

This passage shows we will be WITH Him when He comes! This passage definately tells something! If we are not going to be raptured UNTIL His coming, then why would it say ALL his saints. It says ALL his saints.

Answer 1

I do believe in a pre-tribulation rapture, in part due to the scripture you cited and others as well, but really it doesn't matter (pre, mid, post, pan), the believers will receive the reward of Everlasting Life, with God in Heaven. I simply see no reason for the church to go through any part of the tribulation, but again, that is up to God.

Oh, you're asking, "Pan-Trib"? What's that?

The Pan-Tribulation theory says that no matter when the rapture takes place, Pre, Mid or Post, everything's going to Pan out in the end.


God bless you and keep working.

Answer 2

Sorry, no. The saints are those that are matyred during the tribulation along with the previously dead in Christ. They will be raised first and be with Him at the time of the great meeting in the clouds (what you call rapture), which can't happen until the end of the trib, right before the final wrath.

Personally, I'd rather it be a pre-trib rapture, but that's just wishful thinking, not in the least biblical nor logical. If we don't go thru the tribulation, we can't really be tested now, can we?

Answer 3

I do tend to lean towards the pre-trib rapture thing myself as you may know from my previous posts.....

But I use the Scripture from one chapter up:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.

The verse you mentioned is really good as well. I never thought about that one.

Answer 4

I believe that calling it "wishful thinking" hits the nail on the head.
Like the belief that children and pets go to heaven a belief in a pre-tribulation rapture is only supported by a desire for it to be true but not actual scripture. For a while it was popularized by books, TV, and comedy, but Christians who believe in the rapture are starting to realize that wishing for an early rapture is wishing to avoid experiencing the end times.

Answer 5

Absolutely. I don't have my books with me but I just studied this in class tonight. The Bible talks about the Tribulation being the wrath of God. WE (the church) have been set free by Jesus blood from the wrath of God. Also the lawless one will have no power until one is removed. Well since Jesus went to Heaven after His Resurrection, the only one "left" to be out of the way in the Holy Spirit. Therefore since the Holy Spirit inhabits "the church" when we are "taken out" of the world the lawless one can come (Satan and the Antichrist)

In the words of a Christian Comedy team (Isaac Airfreight) See you there (in Heaven) or in the air sister.

Answer 6

I believe in a pre-Tribulational Rapture, but I do not think this passage demonstrates it. All this passage tells us is that, at some point before we return with Jesus at His Second Coming, we will be drawn up to Him. The debate is *when* this will occur.

In other words, this passage doesn't imply that our being drawn up happens before, during or at the end of the Tribulation -- it merely states that it WILL happen.

Answer 7

I remember the parables Jesus taught about Noah entering the ark and Lot coming out of Sodom. And the flood came, and Sodom was destroyed, but those He would save were saved.
The two women working in the field, one was taken and the other left, two men sleeping, one was taken and the other left. And the parable of the 10 Virgins. Half were wise and took oil in their lamps, half were foolish and were not prepared. He will come as a thief in the night. I believe in the Rapture at Mid Tribulation. I believe we are almost there.

Answer 8

I also believe like Malak and the others....lol I also am not "thrilled" with that idea, but, it seems to "fit" best.

Peace be with you :)

***Have to admit I have been tossed back and forth between mid and post for a long time, lol But have totally decided against PRE.....we have to have the chance to REFUSE the mark and commit ourselves before mankind....those left behind after that will have to go through the fires to be cleansed of their mark....remember, Bible says that we should want to be of the first to go because those left behind will have it tougher?! All those whom hadn't committed themselves to the Lord will be less likely to accept what the Beast and Anti-Christ will be saying about why we had left... and, too late for the Rapture, they will come through (hopefully) and take a stand NOT to receive the mark, or, will be rebels once they HAD shamefully received the mark through what they and probably God, will see as deceitfully given, and these will be those whom will be repopulating the earth with believers after we are gone until the 1,000 years are up and satan is let out for one last fight to the death.

Answer 9

I tend to lean toward pre trib as well because of what I have seen in the Bible. For example Paul says he tells us a mystery. Not all will die but some will be transformed. This transforming is only necessary if we are to exist in what I think will be a extra-dimensional body/ physical body. Such as the angels. We will be able to watch events from there in safety and be with Jesus when he returns. Also the scriptures about how he comes like a thief in the night fits better for pre trib because after the fulfillment of all in revelations you would be expecting it. There is also the passage in luke 17 about 2 people doing the same thing. Suddenly one is gone. Before it gets to that notice that its like Sodom and Gomorah. Lot was told to leave Sodom and so he left all he had. His wife turned back. Now the ones who remain are the ones who go back for their stuff or care more for this world. The ones who disapear or are taken are the ones who are Gods people. They are leaving this world and making way for the Anti-Christ to come. We God's people are holding back the Anti-Christ from coming. We are the salt of the earth not by our own power but by Jesus might and blood within us. Here is the scripture about us holding back the Anti-Christ.
2Thessalonians 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
So we God people are the Salt of the earth preserving it till we are taken and then the Anti-Christ will be free to move acording to this scripture.
"Mat 5:13¶Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men."
This scripture is what tells us we are the salt of the earth preserving the earth for now. Below Mathew 5 follows what Jesus urges his people to heed to be the salt of the earth. This is also a taste of what the Holy Spirit directs us in when we are sensitive to the Spirit of God in us. Im still not 100% sure how it happens exactly but from what I have read it seems pre trib.

Hmm however I can't dismiss the mid-trib as well. Maybe it might get as bad which leads to the Anti-Christ coming to power. So things got bad and this man comes and saves the day. A mid trib thought was that the Anti-Christ after he dies drasticaly changes. Maybe the rapture happens in acordance with something relating to his death. Also notice the 2 whitnesses who tick off the Anti-Christ and then later die for 3 days and then come back to life on national news and then ascend away to heaven like Jesus left. Anyways I would have to say ultimately I don't 100% know but then who does. Myabe Pan-trib wins out.

Answer 10

If you interpret "all" that way then you must also believe that every single person who lives hates you because of the Word of Jesus:-- Luke 21:17
And you will be hated by --all-- for My name’s sake.
Paul is writing to comfort them because of 2 problems, 1- afflictions (3:3) and 2-their trouble with believing the Resurrection (they thought Jesus was coming soon and worried about those who had died). So Paul is comforting them. Now Paul makes it more clear in chapter 4:13-14 that it is those who have "fallen asleep in Jesus" who are coming back with Him and also that there are those on earth who will join them (vs 15). Note the "and who remain" part.

Also if you look at 2 Thess you see the topic again including Jesus coming for judgment and the difficulties the church will face till that time. He doesn't tell them they will be raptured and miss the tribulation but he tells them to endure and to stand fast.

I agree there are many views but this is mine. Christ reigns now with all authority and power and as He gets closer to returning things continue to get worse. Even today much of the church is persecuted in many lands. Our hope is not to be taken away but that Jesus reigns and is coming to judge the earth.

Matthew 5:10
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.