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They claim that they are pagan, but still participate in other pagan activities?http://www.escapefromwatchtower.com/holidays.htm

2007-09-27 04:10:42 · 17 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture Religion & Spirituality

Dwayne...I am so glad that you are worried about me..Birthdays aren't nit picking..use your own arguement toward the WBTS....You are still my fav. Witness

2007-09-27 11:51:43 · update #1

17 answers

Well, um, you kinda answered the question. We choose to not involve ourselves in such things as Christmas, as it has Pagan roots, thus we don't want to be involved in it.

Is it true that we are imperfect?? Sure. However, just because there is something that needs changing, doesn't mean we should do other things that are wrong.

That's kinda like rationalizing, well I ran the red light, so I might as well speed, or vice versa.

2007-09-27 17:27:58 · answer #1 · answered by Ishvarlan 2 · 0 0

Okay, let's see:

Wedding rings - considering that they are universally accepted as a sign of some1's being taken, is it not reasonable to continue such a practice?

Days of the Week - Every1 that speaks the same language refers to the days of the week by their names. Wouldn't you REALLY consider us oddballs if we called our days Resurrection Day, Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 4, Day 5, Impalement Day, and Rest Day (example, I couldn't come up with anything else)? How would we function as working members of society without calling the days of the week by their accepted names.

Headstones - wow, you're reaching just a little bit. As far as I know, the idea traces back to Egypt. Thutmose placed a headstone in front of the Sphinx for some reason or another (cant remember off top), but would you prefer that we cremate all our dead and scatter their ashes? Or should we bury all of them in mass graves and build Kindom Halls on top?

Baptism - the act may be similar, but the symbolism and intent are completely different. Bathing in the Nile river for strength and dipping your body underwater to symbolize death to a selfish life course (and subsequent resurrection to a life doing God's will) have nothing in common.


Nitpicking doesn't seem to be your strongpoint.

You say you were 'under the spell' for 22 years and it took 18 to deprogram, right (or was it 18 in and 22 to undo?)? It seems to me that dwelling on us (which is what you're doing) isn't a very healthy part of the healing process. How are you supposed to obtain closure if you never let the organization go?

2007-09-27 13:14:14 · answer #2 · answered by DwayneWayne 4 · 4 1

I went & looked even looked up some of the Scriptures,
that were given.
I want the truth, so I went & looked.
Guess What!?
As in the case of Job--it is misleading,
u read the Scriptures leading up to & just past the 1's provided, and u find out that Job did not Condon what his children were doing.
The Bible Does Not Mislead Any of Us.
Thx all the same though.

Uncle T; that's funny, the lollipop, illustration
LOL!
thats like the poison in a glass of water,
there's not so much poison in it,
so I think its o.k to drink.

2007-09-27 12:42:04 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 5 1

No faithful man or woman celebrated a birthday in the Bible, nor did Jesus celebrate any of his birthdays.

2 Corinthians 6:15,17
15 What harmony is there between Christ and Belial?

17 "Therefore come out from them and be separate, says the Jehovah.Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."


--==Birthdays==--
“The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. They called the spirit the genius. This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint.”—The Lore of Birthdays, Ralph and Adelin Linton.

“The keeping of birthday records was important in ancient times principally because a birth date was essential for the casting of a horoscope,” say the Lintons. To early Christians astrology was associated with Eastern religions, Roman Stoicism and the twisted thinking of the Gnostics. Christians wanted no part of that!

--==End==--

Many have held banquets which don't go against the Bible teachings, but Pharaoh and Herod where the only ones to hold it on their Birthday.

Ask yourself some questions..

Why didn't Jesus celebrate his birthday?

If Jesus was never born on Dec. 25th, then are you actually celebrating for pagan gods?

2007-09-27 12:36:45 · answer #4 · answered by VMO 4 · 6 3

Pagan is a very strong word.
However, origins matter.
If you found a lollipop on the street, would you wipe it off and hand it to your baby?
After all, its still sweet.
No. You would be concerned about where it came from.
Witnesses too.
If it happens to be that JW's participate in something that has an ungodly origin .....instead of allowing all the other 'pagan' practices too, why not inform the organization, so they may become as acceptable as possible before their God?

2007-09-27 11:18:21 · answer #5 · answered by Uncle Thesis 7 · 8 3

It should be said at the outset that Jehovah's Witnesses are not against having a good time. They often attend and host parties and gatherings with good food and good drink. But they are mindful of applying the scriptures to everything they do and are sensitive to its leanings. Also they recognize that even though God wants them to enjoy themselves, it does not mean any and every manner of doing so is acceptable to Him.

In this modern age, it probably seems odd that Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays. It is noteworthy that neither first century Christians nor Biblical Jews celebrated their birthdays. They were aware of the pagan origins of this activity.

The first century Jewish historian Josephus noted that Jewish families did not celebrate birthdays:

Nay, indeed, the law does not permit us to make festivals at the birth of our children, and thereby afford occasion of drinking to excess (Josephus. Translated by W. Whiston. Against Apion, Book II, Chapter 26. Extracted from Josephus Complete Works, Kregel Publications, Grand Rapids (MI), 14th printing, 1977, p. 632).

Although he was not part of the Church of God, the writings of the early third century Catholic theologian Origen show that, even that late, Catholics were against the celebration of birthdays.

The Catholic Encyclopedia records that Origen wrote:

...of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born into this world below (Origen, in Levit., Hom. VIII, in Migne P.G., XII, 495) (Thurston H. Natal Day. Transcribed by Thomas M. Barrett. Dedicated to Margaret Johanna Albertina Behling Barrett. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume X. Copyright © 1911 by Robert Appleton Company. Online Edition Copyright © 2003 by K. Knight. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1911. Remy Lafort, S.T.D., Censor. Imprimatur. +John Cardinal Farley, Archbishop of New York).

The writings of the late third century Catholic theologian Arnobius show that, even that late, most Catholics were against the celebration of birthdays as he wrote:

...you worship with couches, altars, temples, and other service, and by celebrating their games and birthdays, those whom it was fitting that you should assail with keenest hatred. (Arnobius. Against the Heathen (Book I), Chapter 64. Excerpted from Ante-Nicene Fathers, Volume 6. Edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson. American Edition, 1886. Online Edition Copyright © 2005 by K. Knight).

Thus birthday celebrations, even of gods and leaders, were condemned as far as the late third century by even Roman Catholic leaders.

The celebration of birthdays was not something that original Christians did and should not be done by true Christians today.

Jesus' birth was also not celebrated. More can be found in the article What Does the Catholic Church Teach About Christmas and the Holy Days?

Curly Sue: Thank you for your reference to the account at Job. While it is true that the sons and daughters of Job held banquets at their homes, there is no basis in fact or in scripture for your suggestion that they were "probably" celebrating birthdays. The Hebrew word translated birthday does not appear in this account. The Hebrew word yom (day) appears. So there is no reason to contend that they were having a birthday party.

Of course, the Bible reports on two birthday celebrations and the birthday boys themselves. Both celebrations ended in deaths and both birthday boys were pagan. If you read these two accounts, it becomes readily apparent that there is absolutely nothing which would suggest even in the slightest way that it was a positive, innocent activity. On the contrary, they are presented in a decidedly negative light. Moreover, there is absolutely no report anywhere in the Bible of any worshiper of God doing so. Everything in the Bible is there for a reason. Everything not in the Bible is not there for a reason.

Given the pagan origin of this old custom, the first century example set by Christians; the example set by ancient Jews; the information given by other religious reference works; and the decidedly negative light in which these birthday celebrations are reported, Jehovah's Witnesses have ample reason to refrain from celebrating birthdays. They do not interfere with others who wish to celebrate. They respect that right. And they appreciate it when others respect their position on not celebrating.

I hope this helped you. By the way, you leveled a fairly serious charge against Witnesses when you stated that they participate in "other pagan activities" yet you gave no specific example. Given the seriousness of that allegation, I am sure you understand why some would read such with a curious sense of having been accused without cause - or evidence.

Hannah J Paul

2007-09-27 13:03:30 · answer #6 · answered by Hannah J Paul 7 · 5 1

Like you said, it's because so many of them are pagan in origin. I actually had a copy of a JW handbook that explained this. It even said that birthdays were out, because apparently the act of blowing out candles is pagan in origin too.

As for why they only take this concept so far, and do not for example use different names for the days of the week (which are named after pagan gods), I don't know.

2007-09-27 11:14:04 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 5 4

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that they take great pains in redefining traditional Christianity. They won't even say that Jesus died on a cross. They claim it was a torture stake. Christmas and Easter are indeed rooted in paganism, and for J.W.s this is even more reason to distinguish themselves from what they call, "Christendom."

2007-09-27 11:18:57 · answer #8 · answered by mt75689 7 · 4 3

I think you know why, because the WTBTS says they are pagan, and yes, many of them are. On the birthday issue they will tell you that the only 2 times birthdays are mentioned in the Bible it is in relation to someone being killed. However, did you know that when Jobs' sons held a banquet 'each on his day' they were most probably celebrating their birthday. Job 1:4 ' And his sons went and held a banquet at the house of each one on his own day, and they sent and invited their three sisters to eat and drink with them'. The Bible doesn't say that anything awful happened here, nor does it desribe the event as something sinful.

2007-09-27 11:37:19 · answer #9 · answered by the truth has set me free 4 · 5 7

we could all sit here and pick each other apart couldn't we..

yes those days are pagan and that's exactly why we should celebrate.

seek to understand show no disrespect.

2007-09-27 11:13:35 · answer #10 · answered by slim 5 · 2 4

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