LDS/Mormons: Can you outline the differences between the FLDS Church today and the LDS Church in 1860?

Question

I hear a lot of LDS people tear down the FLDS Church today and claim that it's a big sexist cult that "no one in their right mind" would ever want to join.

Looking at the FLDS culture and comparing it to the post-exodus culture of the LDS Church under Brigham Young between 1848 and 1877, the two look to be much the same.

1. Both featured marriages of underage girls arranged by the Church President.

2. Both featured a Church President with 50+ wives, while many men had only one or no wives.

3. Both Church Presidents preached Blood Atonement from the pulpit and stamped out dissentious behavior.

4. Both featured a theocratic government where the law of the Church supersedes the law of the land.

I know there are probably a few differences, but could someone outline them for me?

Disclaimer: This question is in no way an attack on the current LDS Church or its membership. The current church has made great strides to get away from the lawless order of its frontier period. The Church today is much more honorable than it was 140 years ago, which is why I continue to be a member of it, even after finding out many of its claims are false.

Kia,

I'll give you the 1st point... kind of. Laura Ingalls Wilder married a man that was in his 20s. In the two religious examples, you have 14-year-old girls marrying men that range from 35 to 65 years old. That's a little different, but ok.

2. This is a difference of semantics. Women in both cases were told to be obedient to their husbands whenever he wanted sex. Today, we call forced marital sex "rape," whereas then, it was seen as a husband's right to do this with his wife, and if she spoke up about it, she was deemed apostate.

3. Not entirely... Porter Rockwell was the infamous "avenging angel", and has been linked to the mysterious deaths of at least 4 apostates by either witnesses or confidants. He was Brigham Young's bodyguard.

4. This is mostly true, except from 1862 to 1890, when they continued polygamy even though it was a felony. They finally stopped after the Church was disincorporated and its assets frozen.

5. Polygamy was never practiced by more than 20% of men. With the women and children of polygamous families included, polygamy rates rose as high as 70% at some times.

6. Well, by the LDS definition, I'm not "walking the line," but I've already hopped across, since I have publicly acknowledged that I do not believe Smith and Young to be prophets of God, nor the BoM to be a volume of sacred scripture. I still love the Church though, it's a great organization for families like mine. I pay my 10%, hold FHE, and attend meetings every week.

beta: That's entirely subjective. They would say exactly the opposite of the LDS Church today. They read and pray about it too, and receive the same answer you do.

Edit: Laura Ingalls Wilder actually married a 28-year-old at the age of 18. He was exactly 9 years and 358 days older than her.

Answer 1

One huge difference: The LDS church in the 1860's was led by a prophet of God, through divine revelation from Jesus Christ. The FLDS church today isn't.

If you, as a member of the Church don't know whether or not this is true, I suggest you pray about it until you are sure.

EDIT: You're fooling yourself if you think the majority of FLDS members have had a witness by the Holy Ghost that Jeffs is a prophet of God. I've heard the horror stories of too many "escapees" from Jeffs's compounds to buy that argument. And I disagree with your assessment that the truth is subjective.

To Nagasaki: Hey, I understand if you can't face me on the issues and have to bring my mom into the discussion... It's ok, don't feel bad.

Answer 2

Let's try This. Not only were younger and arranged marriages still conducted back when the church (and the country) was still young; it was Legal and many societies also still did the same. The biggest problem is that the laws have changed and the Main church has changed with them in accordance with the 12th article of faith.

"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law."

The FLDS has not done this, so how can they be on the right path? Simple as that, as for the rest.

1.Partial exclaimed above, but it was not uncommon for other churches in the past to do exactly the same thing. But not only is it frowned upon in today's society, and certain acts are now illegal when they weren't before. the difference is the FLDS doesn't follow the law or society.

2. 50+ Wives is an exaggeration but as to why only certain men did and others didn't I can't say. But I can say that this is a practice done throughout the Bible and the original church thought (or was inspired to) do it. After a awhile not only did they want statehood, but they deemed it no longer necessary and it was against the law that they followed. Again, the FLDS didn't follow the law of the land.

3. This goes with the next answer, many churches preached this at when the LDS church was young. it really goes to let the prefect judge of god give judgment to those who need it. beyond that I'm sure what the differences are with the FLDS unless they still preach it.

4. Many religions in the past and through today that the only perfect government was Gods government. And at times the church was required to govern the law itself. Because they were their own community or even outside the official US. IT seems (I'm not 100% sure) that the FLDS still believe this to the point of secluding themselves, and to keep temptation away. But again, many churches preached this in the past, not just main LDS. However the main LDS, Although recognizing that the current governments are not perfect, are better then nothing. and as long as they generally do the right thing and protect the people there is no reason why members should be subject, or even help it.

Answer 3

There are a few similarities: -Believe in the Book of Mormon and that Joseph Smith was a prophet -Led by a prophet and 12 apostles -Belief in the Bible. -They share a similar history, although clearly different interpretations of it. That's about where the similarities end. The LDS church teaches it's members to honor and obey the laws of the land. FLDS leaders encourage polygamy. The LDS church teaches it's members to be self sufficient. FLDS members are taught how to manipulate government services like welfare and social security. The LDS church teaches certain principals and we are free to do as we choose. FLDS often live in compounds where news, magazines, internet, and other things are restricted from use. LDS individuals dress modestly, but about like anyone else. FLDS wear clothing to their ankles and wrists. The women never cut their hair and they typically wear "prairy dresses". (see links below) The LDS church has members world wide. 1 in 50 Americans is LDS. The FLDS church has about 10,000 members total. Gordon B. Hinckley recently passed away. Before his death he received the highest civilian honor, presented personally by the President of the United States. The FLDS leader, Warren Jeffs, was on the FBI's top 10 list and is currently in a federal prison. The FLDS typically isolate themselves from the rest of society. LDS individuals generally go to public schools and live like everyone else. The FLDS church typically kicks their teenage boys out of their homes and societies because there aren't enough women to go around. FLDS have been commonly known to force young girls (13 or so on up) into marriages against their will to people whom they choose. For the FLDS, the prophet is the one who chooses your spouse for you. In LDS circles, 19 is considered really young to get married, but you can marry whomever you want, where ever you want. I've known some people that got out of FLDS circles. They've all had some really major psychological problems. Hope that helps.

Answer 4

The FLDS church does not compare to the LDS church of the late 1800's. While it is true that Joseph Smith was sealed to one and possibly two teen age girls, I don't see that Brigham Young ever did this. Some men can handle that many wives and some can't.

Brigham Young never preached blood atonement as a church doctrine that must be practiced by men. He said that it was GOD'S law, and we are not under GOD'S law right now, we are under MAN'S (society's) law. In man's law, "blood atonement" is not something that can be done without due process of law. No one can, or has yet, been able to prove to me that Brigham Young ever "practiced" Blood atonement, without due process.

The "law of the church"? What "law of the church" ever superceded the law of the land?

With all due respect, you don't really know what the LDS church was like over 100 years ago, you weren't there, no one alive was. Except Jesus Christ.

Answer 5

1- In the 1860's it was common for "underage" girls to get married. Laura Ingalls Wilder was married at like 15 or 16- and she was not a Mormon. Also many of them married much older men. That was normal in America. That is probably a good part of the reason why so many died in childbirth- they were married before their bodies were fully matured.

2. Brigham Young Never Abused any of his wives and NEVER condoned abuse. If Warren Jeffs was just practicing polygamy and there was no abuse involved, then this would be a whole different matter.

3. I have to do more research on that but Blood Atonement was NEVER practiced in the LDS church.

4. The LDS church has NEVER openly broken the Law or advocated lawlessness to the members.

In the early days of the LDS church- women were never forced into polygamy. Also it was NEVER practiced by more than 20% of church membership.

You my friend are walking the fine line of Apostasy.

Answer 6

There are superficial similarities. The differences are bigger and more important. The LDS church has always been a world wide missionary organization. The Church then and now sent missionaries around the globe to preach the Gospel and bring others to Christ. With rare exception the FLDS is completely self centered.

Answer 7

There is not a lot of difference. Members feel that the leader of each group is a prophet of God and both partake in polygamy and blood atonement as you mentioned. Mormon elders told me that I need to be blood atoned, so it is something that even the elders taught about 20 years ago.
The differences have to do with
- the time they practiced their polygamy
-the culture that they are set in and the way that the church and the culture around them deals with the polygamous behaviour. Legally the extra marriages today are downplayed in the secular area and the extra wives are classified as girl friends to Social Services and the government pays for their health care, babies, support etc.
In the past, the husband paid for it all.

Answer 8

1. comparing modern values to historic values leads to skewed conclusions. For example -- George Washington owned slaves (very bad); George W. Bush never owned slaves : Conclusion -- George W. Bush is a better person and/or a better president.

2. Just because the modern church has a better communication style than 100 years ago does not negate the validity of the priesthood of the early leaders.

3. Besides the serious illegality that is MOST ABSENT in the LDS church of the last century -- the MAIN difference between LDS and FLDS in any time in history is Priesthood authority!

Peace Brother Penguin
D

Answer 9

How can you be a member if you don't know that The Church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints is Jesus' true and only church. That is what the difference is my friend. That this church is his. Nothing else you say and any debates about any differences matter. What matters is this is his church. Not the programs, not what people did or didn't do. The TRUTH is what matters, and you need to ask God and find that out, only he can show you.

p.s. We don't believe in tearing down any church. if someone did, you should not judge the whole church on that.

Answer 10

I agree Mainline church is break off from the flds,