im a baptist and ive always considered baptists to be pretty liberal but ive seen in recent years things that have made me wonder whether its being a hypocrite or not...a woman - a sunday school teacher to 5-6 yr old kids, divorces her alcoholic, non-attending husband and as soon as she separates from him (divorce not final) she is seeing someone else (and eventually marries him) so we have a group of seat-holders in the church - a few deacons, a pastor, and a select few members who have a meeting (unadvertised to the congregation) and take it upon themselves to decide to ask this woman to step down as a teacher...now heres my problem with this - 1 deacon has a daughter who got pregnant out of wedlock at 16, 1 has a 27 yr old son on crack and knows the jailkeep on a firstname basis and the pastor has a 16yr old son who was accused (not convicted) of molesting a little girl....what is your opinion on this? i think they should clean up their own back yards before nosing around in others
2007-09-26 08:43:47 · 22 answers · asked by cookiesmom 7 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
for skepsis - heres where you see a liberal baptist....to mr lizard - hahahaha ....THAT was funny... remember that god has a sense of humor too but he does not like to be mocked
2007-09-26 08:54:24 · update #1
sorry - just to clarify....i dont attend anymore and havent in years - i am a god-fearing woman who follows her faith and believes that i can worship anywhere i choose so long as i do - even if its not in a church
2007-09-26 08:57:17 · update #2
whoa! whoa! whoa guys and gals! back the whole truck up!.....you guys are ASSUMING she committed adultery...i never said that and i do NOT presume to say what goes on behind closed doors....i also did not say that her husband did not cheat on her....and what i AM saying is that if you cannot control your own house you have no business controlling gods!
2007-09-26 09:03:59 · update #3
I think that they where all wrong. I have no issue with the woman divorcing her husband, but it does seem a little premeditated. In your whole story, God was belittle, mocked, and shamed. I'm sorry but just telling the story give more ammo to those who's goal is to destroy the church Christ founded. If Jesus is not lifted up, then it is wrong. Sometimes we all run into problems, but to remove someone for issues in their life, when you have some just as bad or worse, is even more wrong. I dare say, your church is suffering. low attendance, no true growth, no one giving their lives to Christ, being cleansed of their sin. I really hope it works out for all of you, but I think you must come together in corporate prayer, and ask God to lead your church again, in every single thing.
2007-09-26 09:01:56 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
Short answer: I think their own backyards are irrelevant. If this woman did wrong and is causing scandal, and is unrepentant, then she should be removed from a teaching position, certainly. The fact that some of the 'seatholders' have problems in their own families does not change the facts of the teacher's conduct. Perhaps some of the seatholders need to be removed as well, but that's a separate issue.
Also, based on your description, I see a difference between the teacher's situation and the seatholders': The teacher is being disciplined for her own conduct. The situations you describe in the seatholders' families involve the conduct of others, which they may not be able to control. I know this includes a 16-year-old, nevertheless you can't always control teenagers, no matter how hard you try. But an adult Sunday-school teacher should certainly be able to control her own conduct, and if she can't, she's not suitable as a teacher of children.
By the way, I'm not Baptist, I'm Catholic.
2007-09-26 08:53:37 · answer #2 · answered by Agellius CM 3 · 1⤊ 1⤋
Baptists are literal fundamentalists...and as such, the only allowable reason for divorce, is if the spouse cheats on you...therefore, unless this ladies husband was unfaithful, she should never have divorced him.
Further, the qualifications for a deacon and pastor are very specific as stating that they must be people of good character, and you can tell about their leadership qualities by their family. If they cannot properly counsel/lead their family, how can they lead a church.
So, from a literal viewpoint...no, the woman should not be a teacher...but likewise, these men should not be deacons or pastors.
With that said, we are all sinners...and, I am not al iteralist....I would look at these peoples lives, and the way they lead their own lives....do they exhibit the love of God....like 1 Corinthians 13 points out...because I feel the most important thing is love.
However, Baptists are messed up...( I was one for 20 years)...they will one day implode...because they have lost sight of God and love.
2007-09-26 08:50:05 · answer #3 · answered by G.C. 5 · 2⤊ 2⤋
This is a sticky situation. A good old prayer meeting to seek God's guidance should attended. Then The Pastor's advise should be sought by the Committee. Just remember about the other family situations -- Execept for the Grace of God Go I. Prayer is the key when considering this issue.
2007-09-26 08:52:15 · answer #4 · answered by Mamapie2u 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
well
The 3 cases you mention are the members of those people's families and they can not force their family members to do what they want. They may have to try and control them but it really can not be done.
A girl determined to have sex would have to be locked up and not let go to school to stop her, the same with a person that wants to do drugs.
The Sunday school teacher really should not have divorced her husband, maybe separated from him but let him divorce if he wants to. It seems that she planned to marry the other man and was out of order in seeing the other man even before the divorce was final.
The Pastor and Deacons having a private meeting is exactly how it should be handled, this should never be a public thing.
I do agree with you that the deacons and Pastor need to watch their testimony..
I would be doing one thing further and counseling the SS teacher and trying to restore her. Her husband probably was unfaithful and she probably had reason to divorce, (but we really don't know) anyway she went about this in a wrong way.
2007-09-26 08:49:15 · answer #5 · answered by † PRAY † 7 · 1⤊ 2⤋
When discussing what the Bible says about divorce, it is important to keep in mind the words of Malachi 2:16, “I hate divorce says the Lord God.” Whatever grounds the Bible possibly gives for divorce, that does not mean God desires a divorce to occur in those instances. Rather than asking “is ______ a grounds for divorce,” often the question should be “is _______ grounds for forgiveness, restoration, and/or counseling?”
The Bible gives two clear grounds for divorce: (1) sexual immorality (Matthew 5:32; 19:9), and (2) abandonment by an unbeliever (1 Corinthians 7:15). Even in these two instances, though, divorce is not required or even encouraged. The most that can be said is that sexual immorality and abandonment are grounds (an allowance) for divorce. Confession, forgiveness, reconciliation, and restoration are always the first steps. Divorce should only be viewed as a last resort.
Are there any grounds for divorce beyond what the Bible explicitly says? Perhaps, but we do not presume upon the Word of God. It is very dangerous to go beyond what the Bible says (1 Corinthians 4:6). The most frequent additional grounds for divorce that people inquire about are: spousal abuse (emotional or physical), child abuse (emotional, physical, or sexual), addiction to pornography, drug / alcohol use, crime / imprisonment, and mismanagement of finances (such as through a gambling addiction). None of these can be claimed to be explicit Biblical grounds for a divorce.
That does not necessarily mean, though, that none of them are grounds for divorce which God would approve of. For example, we cannot imagine that it would be God’s desire for a wife to remain with a husband who physically abuses her and/or their children. In such an instance, the wife should definitely separate herself and the children from the abusive husband. However, even in such a situation, a time of separation with the goal of repentance and restoration should be the goal, not necessarily immediately beginning divorce proceedings. Please understand, by saying that the above are not Biblical grounds for divorce, we are definitely not saying that a man/woman whose spouse is engaging in such activities should remain in the situation. If there is any risk to self or children, separation is a good and appropriate step.
Another way to look at this issue is to differentiate between Biblical grounds for divorce and Biblical grounds for divorce and remarriage. Some interpret the two Biblical grounds for divorce mentioned above as the only grounds for remarriage after a divorce, but allow for divorce with no remarriage in other instances. While this is a plausible interpretation, it seems to come too close to presuming upon the Word of God. For more information, please read the following two articles:
http://www.gotquestions.org/divorce-remarriage.html
http://www.gotquestions.org/divorced-remarry.html
In summary, what are the Biblical grounds for divorce? The answer is sexual immorality and abandonment. Are there additional grounds for divorce beyond these two? Possibly. Is divorce ever to be treated lightly or employed as the first recourse? Absolutely not. God is capable of changing and reforming any person. God is capable of healing and renewing any marriage. Divorce should only occur in instances of repeated and unrepentant heinous sin.
2007-09-26 08:56:07 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
I think God made the requirements to be a bishop or leader in the church clear. That being said the pastor of the church is the leader of the church. It is up to him to make the decisions. Seems like a sticky situation but also one in everyone needs to stop judging and love one another.
1Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
2007-09-26 08:51:58 · answer #7 · answered by Bible warrior 5 · 3⤊ 0⤋
I agree with you. Unfortunately, Christians are not immune from hypocrisy.
You have to decide if this is an issue for you worth leaving a church over. I have to say, for me personally it probably would be. You're not going to find a perfect church, but I'm sure you can find one a bit closer than this.
Did the teacher leave the church? If so, maybe you can find out where she went. It sounds like she could use some support.
2007-09-26 08:50:19 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
I am not a baptist. people should clean thier house 1st. people make mistakes. We are to learn and to grow. Remember who you are. You are a daughter of god. raise above this stuff. you might want to invesgate other faiths to see maybe this one is not for you. are maybe go to another baptist church. good luck and keep praying.
2007-09-26 08:56:13 · answer #9 · answered by Jereomy T 2 · 1⤊ 0⤋
no sarcasm implied here...which branch of baptists is this? there are a few that are *WEIRD*, like what you are talking about...if you want to be rid of the "politics" of religion, please try a non-denominational church...they do not judge anybody for their past, or other circumstances. i was raised southern baptist, and started going to a non-denominational church and LOVED it...i now go to Church of God, but it's in a large metropolitan city, so it's a little more "loose" or liberal, than the traditional Church of God denomination.
2007-09-26 08:54:29 · answer #10 · answered by ddking37 5 · 1⤊ 1⤋