We had our annual church picnic the other day. It was going good for a while. Then this guy Joe showed up. He's 3 years older than I am, went to high school with him. he's a "member" of our church, but never does anything. We do not like each other. He started problems with me and my 7 year old sister. I was the bigger man. I held my sister's hand and walked away. He pulled me on the shoulder and said don't turn away from him. I told him I want no problems and that to let go of me. Instead, he called me vulgar names and I tried to walk away. He grabbed me by the throat and started to choke me. I know some self-defense. I wasn't going to be choked out. I grabbed his pinkies, bent them backwards, and broke them. I then kneed him in the nuts and grabbed my sister and went to my parents. the members of our church are FURIOUS! I explained to them what I did was within MY right to safety. They said I should've waited for an "adult" to show up (i'm 20) and handle the situation.
2007-09-24 16:23:47 · 17 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Etiquette
I told them I do karate and did exactly what I was taught from my instructors. Some people said if I use karate like that I shouldn’t be doing it. I have been told I would be kicked out of the church unless I ask God for forgiveness and apologize to Joe, (he’ll apologize to me as well) his family and the church. I am refusing to do so when I KNOW I did nothing wrong. I refuse to wait for an “adult” to handle the situation when someone has their hands around my throat, wanting to hurt me. I say he’s lucky I broke his pinkies. I honestly could’ve hit him on the ears and given his concussion if he was lucky. If not I would’ve blown out his eardrums. What do you think? Was I out of place? I REFUSE to apologize for defending myself and my sister. I get to go in and explain myself before the elders. If they want me to apologize, I'll leave the church!
2007-09-24 16:28:58 · update #1
Okay, you can't wash your hands of this mess completely because obviously you and Joe have a history. You've done things in the past that are catching up with you.
Breaking fingers and kneeing nuts are NOT what karate teaches as self-defense. You learn how to remove yourself from a choke hold and maybe do ONE of the things you did to get out - not both. That was excessive.
The proper thing to do here would have been to call 911. If you were truly being choked in a park in front of other people, they would have seen your distress and either called the police or tried to intervene.
2007-09-24 17:23:22 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 1⤋
I'm still trying to figure out why ANYONE in your church figured this "incident" was any of their business in the first place, much less their need for all these apologies.
Why didn't anyone listen to your sister? She was an eyewitness as to what happened. While brawling is to be discouranged, defending the young lady's honor is quite a different matter.
Frankly, the only person who needs to apologize is Joe. Is the church threatening to cast HIM out of the congregation, too? Regardless whether your actions were justified or not, just because the incident happened at the church's picnic doesn't mean the church has any "rights" over what ocurred. It was "outside" of their jurisdiction. If I were you, I would actually call the police and file a report with them about what happened, because you were assaulted by Joe, which is a criminal offense.
I'm unclear as to what your parents think of all this. You say the members of the church were furious, but you do not say if your parents were, also. You are not a minor any longer.
If you were my child, I would put a gold star around your neck and bake a cake to celebrate! Pardon me....
As for your church elders, I STILL don't see where this is ANY of THEIR business! Joe should apologize to everyone, he was the instigator of the situation. All was going well, as you said, until he showed up. The church should expect an apology from him for treating their picnic like a barroom. If I were you, I would not even appear at the meeting, and start looking for another church.
Have a polite day.
2007-09-25 00:00:32 · answer #2 · answered by wyomugs 7 · 1⤊ 2⤋
Karate and breaking fingers is overkill in a case like this. If you want to study a martial art for defense purposes, try aikido. Karate is for attack and therefore inappropriate for a church picnic. Of course the other guy's behavior was inappropriate too. But from being right, you put yourself in the wrong for causing him serious harm. You clearly were not "the bigger man". You proved yourself to be immature, and they are showing considerable patience with you to be willing to accept an apology instead of just kicking you out on the spot. It sounds like you are looking for an excuse to leave the church. You should be big enough to apologize, but if you are not that big yet, then sure, leave the church and return when you have grown up some more.
2007-09-25 00:25:45 · answer #3 · answered by RE 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
OK, is this right ~ you are 20, he's 23, he was insulting your seven year old sister and your church members are mad at YOU?
I'm not sure why they aren't driving this other guy out with pitchforks.
Sounds to me like you did what you had to do, in the circumstances.
Sometimes, especially when the safety of a child is involved, it' not possible to just walk away.
Maybe there was some other way to handle it, we could all think what's best do do in hindsight, but it's a different matter when some big guy is coming at you with a fist.
I don't believe in violence, either, but we all have to be realistic that there are others in this world for whom violence is the first resort, not the last.
You did what you thought was right, and now you need to live with the consequences. It's tough those who should support have turned away, but as long as you know you did right, that should sustain you through it.
IF you have doubts about what you did, maybe you need to think it through and even consider an apology.
BUT, if you believe you were right, given the circumstances, you need to just weather the storm and comes out stronger on the other side.
Cheers :-)
2007-09-24 23:33:34 · answer #4 · answered by thing55000 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
... it is too bad this decended into violence.
Was the amount of force you used necessary to protect, or was it to punish?
It sounds a bit extreme UNLESS he was still attacking when you kneed him. If you used violence to punish rather than to defend - you owe an apology to the church and to your sister - though you certainly are owed at least one as well, from Joe, possibly from other church members if they did not help maintain peace. You should ALL be embarrassed by this incident.
But sadly - it sounds like you have made up your mind, and just want a blessing before you tell your church elders where they can go - I mean, that you are leaving.
2007-09-25 00:06:25 · answer #5 · answered by SC 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Just how long were you supposed to wait for an "adult" to show up? Five minutes? Ten? The only apology I would give would be "I'm sorry I had to defend myself and my sister from a member of this church who was trying to choke me." Karate is the art of self-defense. Sounds like you used it appropriately. The guy's lucky you only broke his pinkie.
2007-09-24 23:35:52 · answer #6 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋
It sounds like you need to find a new church home because those people are crazy as hell. If it was self defense, then I don't see why they are acting so strange about it. And an "adult"?! Wtf?! You are an adult. And by the way, were youi just supposed to sit there and let that idiot do that to you until an "adult" came?! That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. Who the hell said that stupid shyt?! I wouldn't feel safe around those people because they sound a little retarted to me. You didn't do anything wrong.
2007-09-24 23:35:10 · answer #7 · answered by UVRay 6 · 1⤊ 0⤋
You are an adult. I'm sorry that the members of your church don't see it that way, but I'm glad you protected yourself and your sister. I don't know that breaking his fingers was such a good move...but then I've never been in your situation before and couldn't say what I would do if I were.
Still, you were not the instigator. They may be upset about the event itself, but, as you describe events, you were clearly not to blame.
2007-09-24 23:36:39 · answer #8 · answered by TEM 3 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Your actions were well justified & if the church members want to be upset, they should be upset with Joe, who was looking for a fight. Wait for an adult? You're an adult & don't they realize that? You were protecting your sister, you tryed to walk away like man would do, but Joe was looking for trouble. I applaud you for being a man & protecting your little sister, as well as doing what you had to do, so as not to be seriously hurt, because your sister was right there & alone. I'd never attend that church again.
2007-09-24 23:34:35 · answer #9 · answered by Shortstuff13 7 · 3⤊ 1⤋
You did absolutely nothing wrong and you shouldn't have to apologize. What were you supposed to do? Wait for some one to come rescue you? He could've killed you. It was self defense. You walked away at first and did nothing to provoke him. Are they saying they would rather your little sister watch you suffocate than have an obviously danger man put in his place. At least now he'll know he can't get away with such violent act's. What the members are is saying makes absolutely no sense. What would they have done if you had done nothing and he'd ended up hurting you and your sister? What you did was logical and just. If you haven't already you should tell the police, he's obviously dangerous.
2007-09-24 23:51:59 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 2⤋