Catholics are the original Christians?

Question

I am so tired of seeing this on here. It is not true. The original Christians had no idea what the Catholic church was. If you went back to Peter and said "hello Pope Peter, how are you doing" He would have no idea who you are talking to. If you told him he was the head of the church he would say no Christ is. Catholics are not the original church nor the original Christians. I fail to see why catholics claim this to be true. Can someone please explain it to me?

panglosswasright - yes the Catholic church claims that. It is false though. As I stated the apostles had never even heard of the Catholic church. They cannot trace their history 2000 years. What they did was claim all the early Christians were Catholics (the denomination not the meaning universal) when this is patently false.

maria - Peter was infallible in faith and morals? Do you even read your Bible? So the fact that Peter denied Christ after he was told that doesn't count? The fact that Paul had to correct him on his behavior to gentiles when the Jews showed up didn't make Peter wrong? Do you even read your Bible or do you just accept what the priest tells you?

tebone0315 - the arrogance of the Catholic church is astounding. Christ did not found the Catholic church. He founded the church. The true church is all believers. Not just the Catholics. The Catholics are but one denomination among many.

agentyoda0 - actually when my church ordains a minister the other ministers lay hands on them and pray. Many if not most of the traditions of the Catholic church are at the best not supported by the Bible. At the worst they are in direct opposition to the Bible.

cristoiglesia - if by all that you mean there is one true church that is composed of all Christians regardless of denomination I agree. If you mean that the true church is the Catholic church I totally disagree. I am a bit unsure of your meaning.

panglosswasright - I know it is not run by the catholic church. However there is not one Historical document from the time of the apostles referring to Peter as the Pope. The term catholic first shows up in literature in the mid second century. And then it was used not as the Roman Catholic Church but to mean universal. The Catholic church was first actually formed and recognized I believe in the 4th century. The line of Popes being unbroken is a laugh. At times there was more than one pope. Some popes have been declared heretics. Some have been found not to exist. Research your denomination. Don't just take what the priest tells you.

The Cub - how can you say Catholics wrote the Bible? Did the apostles even know the term Catholic? Did they refer to themselves as Catholic? If so show me the quote. The apostles wrote the Bible and were inspired by God. Not Catholics. To claim that Catholics wrote the Bible and gave it to us seems to be heresy to me. You are taking credit for what God did.

The Cub - in addition the mention of the church in 1 Timothy that you quote refers to the body of believers. Not any denomination.

I would like to add here I really am not trying to attack the Catholic church. It just makes me so mad that someone would have the audacity to claim that they are the one true church. When Jesus made it clear the church is all Christians. All believers make up the church. No denomination is the true church.

My midpt. in life. - the Catholic church is possibly the first denomination. But it is not the first church.

panglosswasright - yes I can give independent resources. But it would be easier if you just googled it. I know this is a religious site but if you will investigate their claims about the unbroken line of popes you will find them to be true.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/unbroken.htm

t_rex_is_mad - Christianity started with Christ. But to believe that He founded the Catholic church is absurd. Especially when many of their beliefs are not supported Biblically.

cristoiglesia - much clearer. Wrong but clearer. Do you truly think Jesus meant the Catholic church and not all the believers? All Christians are the true church not one denomination. I do not protest what Christ created. I follow what Christ created. I protest and disagree with what man created. Do you truly believe God needed the Catholic church to form the Bible? He could have used anyone. The books that the Catholic church put into the Bible were the books already commonly accepted by most churches

Answer 1

Thank you! I'm tired of seeing this on here, too. The Roman Catholic Church is not "the church". "The Church" in the Bible are people who are Christians, period.

Answer 2

You have started a whole mish-mash of quotes, counter quotes, truths and false truths, and what is and what is not. The first church had nothing to do with Jesus, Peter, or Paul. Jesus became a teacher. In Aramaic and Hebrew teacher means rabbi. Jesus was basically highly conservative, restorational Rabbi. He wanted the faith of Judism to return to its original path. He never wanted to start a new religon, only to get his religon back on track.

Peter and Paul never saw eye to eye on very much. They each left Jersulem and took different paths. Peter to Rome and Paul through Greece and then north. Peter wanted the world to be true followers of Jesus. He felt that you need not be circumsized to become a follower. He broke from Jewish Law and started a new sect. Paul on the other hand was more concerned with reaching out to the Jews and showing them the light of what the Rabbi had said about the synagogue. Neither side was right, neither side was wrong. Christianity grew out of this almost 150 years after Jesus. The original Christians were not ex-Jews, ex-paganists, or anything ex else, they were somehow convinced that the Rabbi Jesus was more than a teacher, This resulted in the forming of one church that took about 100 more years to consolidate. They picked the Gospels that would become the New Testiment. No Gospel was written till long after the original 13 (Jesus included) were dead. The chosen Gospels were editted and rewritten into the New Testament. I am sure that if the Aposiles were able to read the New Testament and see what had happened to the teachings of the Rabbi Jesus they would would be very disappointed.

The few "thruths" of this era are that the Jewish religon had split into several different sects. There is no historical proof other than the New Testament and Josephus (a historian who was a Roman Jew who lived 200 years after Christ) that Jesus existed. The Romans were extremely good record keepers, but nowhere in their records does it mention Jesus' life, trial, or execution. There are records of most of the Aposals. We are sure that Peter, Paul, and maybe 5 or 6 others are mentioned in Roman records.

The true church is the true church. It is built on a falsehood. No new church was founded by the 13, only a conservative look at that days Jewish sects. They were only trying to restore the different sects of Judism to the one true faith. The church grew out of that. This new one church eventually became know as the Catholic (Universal) Church. The Catholic Church split almost immediately into thirds. The Roman Catholic Church, the Greek Orhodox Church, and the Russian Orthodox Church were out growths of the one true Church. The differences between the three are minimal, except for their followers. There were no Protestants until Martin Luther tacked his questions on the door.

The issue is truely a matter of faith. If you are Jewish you do not care about Christianity because it not true to the Bible. By the way today there are three branches of Judism reform, conservatism, and orthodox. If you are Christian, it matters what sect you are as to which is the one true Church. The differences here are minor, but very important if you are one Christian Religon or another. If you are Islamic they are two basic sects. They have minor differences to us but are major ones to them.

Answer 3

+ Christian +

According to Acts 11:26 "it was in Antioch that the disciples were first called Christians."

Does this mean the all believers in Jesus Christ who died before the term "Christian" was invented, including Saint Joseph, the foster father of Jesus, were not Christians?

No. These believers were Christians even if the term was not yet invented.

Mary and Joseph believed that Jesus was the Messiah even before He was born. They were the first Christians even if the term had not been invented yet.

+ Catholic +

The early Christian Church has referred to itself as the “Catholic Church” at least since 107 C.E. (about 10 years after the last book of the New Testament was written), when the Greek term "Katholikos" (meaning universal) appears in the Letter of St. Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans:

"Wherever the bishop appear, there let the multitude be; even as wherever Christ Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church."

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/ignatius-smyrnaeans-hoole.html

We do not know how long they had been using the term "Catholic" before it was included in this letter but this is the same early Christian Church.

The three (non-Jewish) Magi visiting the baby Jesus was one of the first signs that Christianity would reach out to the entire world or be universal or be catholic. The early Christian Church was catholic even before they started using the word.

All of this was long before the Council of Nicea and the Nicene Creed from 325 C.E. which states, "We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church."

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07644a.htm

With love in Christ.

Answer 4

The Disciples and Apostles were the first Christians , and they were first called that in Antioch I belive . The word Pope or catholic is nowhere in the Bible . Christ is the head of the church no one else can take His place, He is the foundation the rock and the conerstone or keystone .Funny or sad thing about it is what man has done to His church
He didnt say you had to be Catholic or Luthern or Baptist Just belive in His name and be saved , except His gift .

Answer 5

They believe that when Christ told Peter upon this rock I will build my church, that He was referring to Peter and they also believe that Peter was the one who started the Catholic church. To that they are correct but it was NOT the same Peter the Disciple. It was a different man by the name of Peter and his intentions were NOT Christ centered.

satan has a counterfeit for everything that God has...

Answer 6

Paul coined the term Christian. Up until Paul, if you asked any follower of Jesus (any Christian) they would have told you that they were Jews. In Paul's letter to the Galatians he said that "There is no longer Jew or Greek." Paul seems here to be trying to keep the new, gentile Christians from feeling they weren't 'in' enough while possibly having the for site to take steps to keep them from coming up with they idea that Jews must give up their identity. The concept of a seat in Rome dictating what/ who is and is not Christian would probably have alienated most Christians at the time. My short answer is that no, the first Christians were Jews.

Answer 7

"Where the Bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."
St. Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrneans 8, 107 A.D..


"Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached
by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers On this was the Church founded; and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian."

St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D..


THE ONE TRUE CHURCH
http://home.inreach.com/~bstanley/damenchu.htm


The Catholic Church is the only Christian Church which can trace its origins back for almost 2000 years. All other Christian denominations can only go back a few hundred years at most for their origins. Here are the founders and dates of some of the mainline Churches.
They are in time line order:

* 30 A.D., The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ.
Matthew 16:18, John 19:34, Acts 2:1-4, 1Timothy 3:15
* 1521, Martin Luther started Protestantism by forming the Lutherans, when he broke away from the One True Church that had already existed for almost 15 centuries.
* 1521, Thomas Munser, a Catholic priest, started Anabaptists in the same year that Luther broke away. Protestantism started splitting within itself immediately. By 1600 there were 100 splits. By 1900 there were 1000, and today there are over 36,400. Where is the One Fold (John 10:16)?
* 1525, Mennonites started by Grebel, Mantz, and Blaurock in Switzerland.
* 1534, Henry VIII started the Church of England (Anglican).
* 1536, John Calvin, teaching predestination, formed the Calvinists.
* 1560, John Knox, who studied under Luther, started Presbyterians.
* 1582, Congregationalists started by Rob Brown, as a branch from Puritanism.
* 1609, John Smyth formed the Baptists in Holland.
* 1639, Roger Williams started the Baptists in America. They have since splintered severely.
* 1647, George Fox started the Quakers in England.
* 1739, John and Charles Wesley started the Methodists.
* 1770, Universalists were started by John Murray in New Jersey.
* 1774, Theophilus Lindley started Unitarians.
* 1789, Samuel Seabury started Episcopalians.
* 1793 to 1809, the Churches of Christ had four separate founders.
* 1803, Evangelicals were founded by Jacob Albright in Pennsylvania.
* 1830, Joseph Smith founded the Mormons in Palmyra New York.
* 1860, William Miller, a farmer, started the Adventists.
* 1863, Ellen Gould White started the Seventh-Day Adventists.
* 1865, William Booth started The Salvation Army.
* 1879, Mary Baker Eddy started Christian Scientists.
* 1879, Charles Russell started the Jehovah's Witnesses.
* 1875, New Age was started by Helena Blavatsky. *COL 2:8
* 1895, French Abbe, Alfred Loisy and English Jesuit, George Tyrrell started Modernism.
Modernism was condemned by Pope Saint Pius X in 1907.
* 1901, Pentecostalism was started in the United States.
* 1914, Felix Manalo started Iglesia ni Cristo.
* 1914, Assembly of GOD was started by a General Assembly in Arkansas.
* 1919, Church of the Nazarene was started by a Union at a General Assembly.
* 1930, Independent Churches of America (IFCA), a consortium of churches .
* 1934, Evangelical Reformed was started by Union at a General Assembly.
* 1952, L. Ron Hubbard started the Church of Scientology.
* 1965, Chuck Smith began Calvary Chapel.
* 1968, Disciples of Christ, separated from the Churches of Christ.
* 1974, Ken Gullickson started the Vineyard Christian Fellowship.
* Pentecostal Gospel, and other splinter Pentecostal groups, are some of the hundreds of new sects founded by mere men in the 20th century.

"Has Christ been divided up?" 1Corinthians 1:13


"Unless the Lord build the house, they labor in vain who build it." Psalms 127:1


Apostolic Succession
http://home.inreach.com/~bstanley/apostol.htm


THE UNBROKEN LINE OF POPES:
http://home.inreach.com/~bstanley/popes.htm


The Church is the Pillar of Truth, Not the Bible

1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (n.b. he did not say that the Bible was the pillar and buylwark of the truth.....but the Church who wrote the Bible.)

Answer 8

Well, firstly, Catholics (Catholicism) aren't "Christian" at all. Catholicism has literally nothing to do with the Biblical Messiah, Christ Jesus, because it is a "religion". Christ did not come to establish "religion"; He came to set the captives free through "Rebirth" into "Salvation", which the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) does not endorse, or practice. Many countless Catholic practioners have gone through the gaping Jaws of Hell. The RCC is a "religious institution" of "idolatry" that is absolutely no different from any other pagan "religion" being the amass result of centuries of man made doctrine and the infiltration of antipodal pagan rituals that are antithetical to basic Christian tenets and principles. Catholicism is “Christian” in NAME ONLY, and entirely devoid of the Presence of God, the Son of God, and the Holy Spirit (have you ever attended a Catholic service and noted the total absence of God and the DEADNESS); they worship “another” Jesus, a “False Messiah”; preach a “false gospel”; practice “Marianism” (idolatry); and the RCC is rooted in the “blasphemous doctrine” of the anti-Biblical “Council of Nicaea” (A.D. 325) that refused to recognize the Deity of Jesus. The RCC is identified by the vision given to John of Patmos in the Book of Revelation 17:5 in the following fashion, “And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH”.

Additionally, Catholics believe they are "THE" Church, and there is no other. But "church" in its truest sense as intended by Christ and conveyed to the Apostle Peter was NOT a behemoth, gargantuan institutionalized infrastructure as the RCC is, but rather "church" is a "people", not a titanic edifice or cathedral. So the basic sense that has become lost is that the "Church" that Christ spoke of is a "walless" Church, being a "Great People", conveyed in the Gospels as the "Bride of Christ" and the "Overcomers in Christ". The RCC is a severe perversion of this, headed by its "god", Satan, whose whole agenda was to mutilate and mutate Christ words to Peter ("Upon this rock I shall build my Church.") into a great monstrosity, "Mother of Harlots and Abominations".

So in answer to your question… NOPE, Catholics were NOT the “first” Christians,, but rather, they were the first “SCHISM”, a departure from the True Faith and the True Holy Gospels, identified as "the falling away of the church".

Answer 9

The earliest Christians were Jews. They were what today would be called Messianic Jews. See the letter of Paul to the Hebrews.
I know an Orthdox woman who gets upset at the concept of Messianic Jews. She says there's no such thing....they are just another type of Christian.

Answer 10

Catholics claim to be the original church because back then, the church was universal (Catholic means universal). Throughout history, the tradition of the original Chruch was carried down; only the Catholic church continues those traditions. One such instance is in the laying on of hands on new priests. You can trace the laying on of hands all the way back to Peter and the apostles.