Atheists: No Higher Power created the Universe?

Question

The Universe came from nothing and so did you? All of the complex laws of the Universe came from noone? How could you be here to deny the existence of a God, if it were not for God? There would be nothing. Ignore the flaws and think of how atoms could have materialized into a living, breathing, thinking, intelligent being? I agree that the Bible and most religions are full of flaws, but those are just man-made religions. Blind belief in a dogmatic religion is one thing, but what about a power greater than ourselves? Did it occur to you that there are things that the human mind cannot comprehend? Do you think that our five senses can tell us everything about the Universe?

P.S. - The "Take a drink" thing is really old.

I don't disagree with Science and I believe in evolution.

If no deity exists, who created the Universe?

I said nothing about bowing down to a goat herder or anything about organized religion. Just open your mind, that's all I'm asking you to do.

I believe that the big bang began the Universe. I don't ignore science. How could the big bang have occured without a creater of the energy? Why close your mind to believe that a Higher Power could not exist outside of the constraints of space and time which He created?

I'm not the one who is ignorant. Your arguments are not particular strong, or is it even an argumet, brother. I am not anti-atheist at all either. I am friends with several. I just think that you are close minded to the very possibility of a creator just because you can't see Him.

Answer 1

Uh-huh.

So because we don't know everything we should bow down to old goat herder's tales and waste our lives wallowing in ignorance because as we all know, "Goddidit!"

How about accepting that we don't know everything, and refusing to pretend that an easy explanation is better than "I don't know." Or better yet, make every effort to understand what we can and leave what we don't to future generations?

Answer 2

And where did God come from?

Snip

God came from nothing? All of the complexity of the God came from no one? How could you be here to deny the existence of a creator of God, if it were not for God's creator there would be nothing.

Ignore the flaws and think of how God could have materialized into a thinking, intelligent being?

I agree that the Bible and most religions are full of flaws, but those are just man-made religions. Blind belief in a dogmatic religion is one thing, but what about a power greater than God? Did it occur to you that there are things that the human mind cannot comprehend? Do you think that our belief can tell us anything about the Universe?



The drink thing may be really old, but trite, thoughtless questions like yours are even older. And have been answered ad nausiam previously.

I guess you are not only too lazy to think about a question before you ask, but you are too lazy to read any of the responses to the thousands of questions just like it.

Answer 3

My view is that our knowledge of the universe is incomplete. We do not have an adequate Toe (Theory of Everything).
The question of cosmology is very difficult.
There are many answers and theories, including the speculation that the universe is cyclical and always existed.

Google "cyclic universe bounce" and you'll see what I mean.

Another theory is that nothingness was unstable and due to symmetry braking or quantum effects the world we see sprang from zilcho.

Common to these 2 views is that they are both scientific hypotheses if not theories.

On the other hand assuming that the world is created, and then arguing that there mustbe a creator, is a case of circular logic and a fallacy at that.

The complexity of the world can be understood in terms of it's immense scale and quantum fluctuations realised and "frozen" chaotically at the macrocosmic, classical level.

On the other hand, asserting God, is well a case of using "God of the gaps" to explain the world we inhabit, be it due to it's complexity or grandeur.

I am glad that you are a believer who can refine his views with the light of science in mind, and take heart in the fact you accept evolutionary theory and can critique the major "man made" faiths.

However, remember that God is not a scientific hypothesis.

Recall occam's razor. If there is a simpler explanation, then use it.

And remember that you can argue more or less anything into existence with philosophical maneuvering and sophist allusion. But that does not make you a scientific thinker, as science is much more stringent than logic in every case.

When I see the word "God" in a peer reviewed physics paper I will imagine one of two possibilities:

1 - God has been shown to be a legitimate explanatory tool.

2 - A theocracy has been established and science is no longer free.

I think that the latter is more likely than the former.

Sorry.

But who said this upset you? You might even like the answer I gave?

Edited to add:

You might even like the suggestion the it is a human trait, evolutionarily "programmed", to see things higher (or taller) as better, and it is not an inherent attribute of any majesterial cause even if one existed. To think that way would be to project our humanity onto it and the world around us, which is what I think you are doing, albeit in a fairly elegant way compared to some.

The closer to the truth you are, the harder it is to refute.

Answer 4

I believe atheism is a turning point, a real attempt to understand the universe, if it is properly applied. However, as a negation of previous theistic arguments and belief systems, it is not adding anything new, just stirring the nest of theistic dogma to try to get others to break out of the stricture of God-centered thought and worldviews. Atheism can be useful on the path to understanding the universe around us, but it is pointless to simply stop at the point where we say, "there is no God," and not try to answer the questions that still remain open after God has been rejected as the mover and encompassing explanation for everything.

I don't deny that there may be a power beyond our understanding (or even many powers), but I reject the idea that the study of Earthly religions will provide all the answers to every mystery in the universe. The idea that God must follow the anthropomorphic "intelligence" model seems to be an obvious artifact of human creative intelligence and not, in its theistic belief and worship structure, capable of standing on its own without Man. Thus, I believe that God as most people understand him through religious study, was Man-created. Whether there is a real God, outside this construct, I cannot say.

Answer 5

1. The Laws of the Universe are not that complex.
2. The Anthropic principle applies; if there was no one here, no one could ask, so the point is moot.
3. Three billion years is a long time for the term "materialized".
4. We build tools to detect thing s beyond our senses.

We don't know our limits, but this proves nothing. The drink think may be old, but so are your questions.

Answer 6

There is nothing that says that there had to be nothing to begin with. There is no scientific indication that any outside force was involved in the universe being generated or in life evolving.

Granted a "god" might exist but there is no evidence to indicate that. There certainly is enough evidence that "atoms materialized into living beings" albeit through a long process over many years, and still no indication of a god.

Is it reasonable to assume that a god that can't be comprehended would have left no evidence or would even be interested in us?

Edit:
*drink*, yeah drinking is old, but so is this question.

Answer 7

You 'believe' in evolution (as if it requires belief, you understand it or you're an ignorant theist and you dont - or refuse to) yet you talk about humans coming about from atoms as if they just fell together by accident?

If God was a complex enough entity to create a Universe then he'd require far more explanation than a Universe that didnt have a creator - I mean what is it with religious people? How does 'God did it' explain ANYTHING - at all!?

God can't do anything. If you want to tell me how god was created - avoiding childish stuff like 'he was always there' and such then it'd be interesting. Otherwise... *drink up*

Edit:
"If no deity exists, who created the Universe?"

Couldn't you say if no deity exists who created mankind? The flaw in the logic is the same you're only advertising your own ignorance.

Answer 8

There may be an energy being intrinsic to the origin of the universe. It would not require religion or worship. It would be as natural as the sun, the wind and you... not a God.

God has been delegated to the realm of magic, all magic is either tricks, lies or misdirection. Where we lack knowledge, we insert God in it's place. I don''t know is replaced with God did it.

Religions have difficulty comprehending a force of great power being completely natural that existing without the politics, pettiness and biases of man. If those elements were to be removed, a creative force of the universe would be a sound theory.

Answer 9

I encourage you to take your own advice - "Ignore the flaws and think of how atoms could have materialized into a living, breathing, thinking, intelligent being" and call that being God. Now explain to me how your belief is any different than mine - something came about at the beginning. Whether it was God or physical laws or atoms or life, we both agree that something incredible came about from something or nothing at some point. It is also beyond our ability to understand at this point.

There are indeed greater powers than myself - gravity, centrifugal force, fire, life and death, the tax man. Most people will accept that. But a power greater than all other powers combined? Not likely.

Answer 10

Why assume it was God who made everything? Where's the evidence? You can't say "just look all around you," because someone else on the other side of the world is just as convinced that "looking all around me" is evidence that a flying purple monkey created everything. "Looking all around me" is no evidence of any supernatural being, any more than gifts under the tree are evidence of Santa Claus.

The only difference being that people usually outgrow belief in Santa Claus.

No one ever said the universe came from nothing. In fact, that doesn't represent the current scientific theory at all. Once again -- and I think I've pointed this out a dozen times today alone -- it's CREATIONISTS, not those who accept evolution -- who think that the universe magically arose from nothing. I'm really amazed at how much this idea gets projected onto those who accept evolution.

Answer 11

Just signed on to this group. Read through this discussion thread. Same old story. While the house is burning down, everybody inside is fighting over who invented water. Signing off now, bye. Have fun. See ya in the Hundred Acre Wood, if you make it through the desert of your anger and hatred. Arrogant, rhetorical posturing and insult slinging is unbecoming of 'higher' intelligence. I was once again sucked in by the impression that this was a discussion group and sadly disappointed to find a just another pissing match. PS: All of the question asker's questions are valid. And throwing buckets of crap at people is not an answer, just the standard reaction of ignorance. If you really believe this is all there is, and that everything is knowable, then that's just sad for you. Enjoy your trivial pursuits!