who would you say was at fault?

Question

I was at my sisters house saturday morning.
she has a lovely little border collie - a rescue dog - which is very sweet natured, except it hates people in hats or baseball caps. it was badly abused before being rescued and we assume it was by someone who wore a baseball cap, or suchlike.

I took the dog for a walk, and tied it up outside the post office while getting the newspaper.
In the meantime, a woman came along with a child in a baseball cap.
the woman tried to pet the dog, and it went for her. bit her arm, but didnt break the skin.

obviously she was very angry. She said the dog should be muzzled, etc, etc.

in my opinion, the dog is not to blame, when a strange person tries to pet it without knowiung the dog or asking permission.

all relevant views welcome
what do you think?

Answer 1

Interesting question,.
I am not having a go but i would say your both at fault purely because you knowingly left a volatile dog unattended, you as the human know that it has issues with hats / caps so tying it up outside the shop was a foolish move, as obviously it is in a place it can't move from and you know that shops are busy so people in hats / caps are to be expected.

I have a dog woth the same phobia, and as i know he has issues i don't leave him unattended or tied up in a place where people can approach without warning or put him in a position where he thinks the only defence is to bite.We also attend a behaviourist to work through these problems.

The lady and her child were also to blame as they should never approach a dog that is unknown to them and try to pet it without the handlers say so, its common sense and courtesy on both parts that could have prevented this from happening.

I truly hope that your sister gets in touch with a behaviourist to try and work the problem out as it could lead to someone being seriously hurt if the dog were to be put in the same or similar position again.Or get in touch with the rescue centre as they shouldn't have rehomed it without training with a behaviourist to work through the issues.

If the lady goes to the police however then you may be in hot water as any dog who is likely to bite (especially if phobic) should be muzzled and not left unattended - you will also find it difficult to arrange insurance on the dog as it has shown tendancies to bite.

I wish you well and hope all goes ok

Answer 2

You left a dog you knew "hates" people in baseball caps tied up outside a post office?

Your bad.

Petting a dog you don't know it is not a great idea and if a human is with the dog then people should ask permission----but if a dog is left tied up outside a post office most people are going to believe that it is friendly and not human aggressive.

If you have a dog that you know will try to bite people you have no business leaving it alone outside a building that has a lot of foot traffic. A muzzle would have been the bare minimum---it honestly shouldn't have been left there at all.

What if the leash had failed to restrain the dog for some reason and the dog mauled a 3 year old in a baseball cap???
What would you do then?

Your family would be open to a huge lawsuit for not securely restraining the dog and you'd have the guilt of knowing a child was severely injured when YOU were in charge of the dog.

And did you think about what would happen to the dog if some sicko decided to hurt it while you were inside? or how badly the dog could be hurt if another dog attacked it?

Answer 3

You're right, the DOG is not to blame...it's not her fault that you left her unattended at the mercy of strangers with no way to escape and no options other than biting if she felt threatened. Ultimately YOU are the one who is responsible for the dog's actions and you are the one at fault here.

Yes, no one should ever approach an unfamiliar dog without asking the owner/handler first (not to mention the danger and bad lesson this woman was teaching her child). But the general public is full of morons and most people don't actually have "common" sense and therefore can't be expected to behave accordingly or intelligently. You can't expect anything of people in public because they usually do something unexpected. On the other hand, you knew full well what to expect of the dog.

No dog should be left tied unattended while you step into a business. The dog may not have broken skin *this* time, but she could have seriously injured that woman or the child. Simply saying that the woman should have known better and that it isn't a big deal since the dog didn't break skin is extremely irresponsible on your part and putting the dog in danger. If I were that woman (I wouldn't have approached the dog in the first place, but if I had) I would report this incident to the police and/or animal control because although this particular dog may not be dangerous in all situations, you created a public hazard and danger in this particular situation. If I were a mother, even if I didn't hold the dog at fault, I wouldn't want to risk another child being put in similar danger.

Next time, do yourself, the dog, and the general public a favor and leave the dog at home if you know you'll have to run into a store/business to take care of an errand or else bring someone else who can sit with the dog while you are absent.

Answer 4

Clearly the woman should not have approached the dog, however the dog also should have never been left unattended for any amount of time.
A post office is usually a very busy place to which people walk by often. Had the dog been tied up outside a post office, chances are people are going to be walking by. It is a risk that you take leaving a dog, that you know has problems, within range of passers by. I must add, what if it were just someone passing by, and the dog went after their child, then the woman got bit getting between said dog and child. The story you give is not any different than if the dog bit unprovoked, the dog STILL bit.
One of the rules to having a dog is to always be in control of your dog... if you weren't physically with the dog then you were obviously not in control of it.
Did you tell your sister that the dog bit someone? If not I recommend that you do, the dog should be undergoing behavior modification from a licensed behaviorist & trainer to help ease her fear of people in hats. One should not accept any form of aggression with their dogs, for public safety and for the general well being and mental health of the dog.

Answer 5

Yes, I think everyone agrees that people shouldn't approach a dog without asking the owner if they could pet it, but you weren't there for her to ask. However, I still don't think she should have tried to pet the dog.....she was considered a stranger to the dog and she should have known he may not care for strangers approaching him. Then on the other hand, I would never tie a dog out in a public place...let alone by his leash. What if he got a way? And, knowing the dog wasn't nice to people in hats is another reason why I wouldn't leave the dog unattended....so, you are both at some fault...however, I think you are more at fault.

Answer 6

I would have to agree that it is not the dogs fault. No one should ever just walk a dog they don't know and pet them. But far too many people do this. And then the dog is labled "aggressive" which I think is very unfair.
My dogs, all rescues, don't tolerate strangers very well. And I always tell people not to pet them, that if they want to be petted they will go to them. And I still have the people who try to pet them anyway. That's when I ususally turn them around and walk away. I've had many comments from people who think they are aggressive, but that is not the case.
On the flip side, I also think that maybe you shouldn't have taken the dog with you and tied him up outside while you were in the post office. Because if this lady decides to sue, they will not see it they same way you do. As society is too quick to jump and say "aggressive".

Answer 7

Well, fault lies with the owner of the dog.
Your assumption that people are smart enough NOT to approach a dog is being nieve. They see a fluffy happy collie type dog, they want to pet it, there is no one to ask if they can pet it, they reach, the dog bites. You are lucky no one is suing you.
Your job is to keep your dog away from situations that will cause confrontation, not leave it out in the open for a person to guess if it bites or not. You are the dog's provider/protector, the dog is at your mercy, when you were not there to protect it, it did the only thing it knew how to stop an unsolicted petting, ~~bite.

Answer 8

Knowing the dog has a problem it was you at fault for leaving it alone. The woman should not have tried to touch the dog, (stupid to my mind) but what would have happened if someone in a cap just walked closely by or went to go into the store and got close to the dog? What if it were a small child? It could have been bitten in the face just because it got too close.

The dog should never be left unattanded even for a miniute or 2 as you will find yourself liable if someone gets hurt. If you do need to leave him to go into a store for everyones sake he should be muzzled just in case.

I do totally understand where you are coming from, but you know the situation. Other people don;t so it's up to you to take precautions.

Thanks for rescuing this dog.

Answer 9

I could write an essay in response to this - but I will contain myself! lol
OK, I own four dogs, three of whom are rescues, and two of whom have 'hang ups' which could be compared to your sisters' collies.
OK, the actual question is 'who would you say is at fault?', so, if I had to be forced to give a simple answer, my answer would be 'you'.....but please read on!
When taking on any pet, but ESPECIALLY a rescue dog, whom you discover has 'issues', it is the owners responsibility, to the DOG, that they care for the dog in such a way that it never feels threatened enough to 'step out of line' in the way that has now unfortunalty happened. OK, (I'm saying OK alot, but I think it's as I am so aware that poeple might be totally shouting at their screens right now!),, so, In the case of your siters' collie, she allowed YOU to temporarily be responsible for the dogs' wellbeing and caregiving. She and you were BOTH fully aware that the dog has a big problem with people wearing heardgear - and probably other things too. So, I personally feel it was a very rash thing to do, tie up the dog outside a shop. The dog could have been stolen, or it could have bitten a child.....oh, yes, that IS what happened! OK (!), I TOTALLY, COMPLETELY, ABSOLUTLEY agree that no body should be approaching a tethered, strange dog ANYwhere, and the adult that was with the child should have been taking full responsibility for the kids safety - just as you SHOULD have been for the dog'. But, we all know people DO do it, every day. I am not suprised the dog bit - it (you don't say if 'it' is he/she) - was tethered, unable to flee, when a small child, wearing the thing that terrifies it approached and reached out (as if to grab, in the dogs mind)....of COURSE the dog bit! But, the thing is, you KNEW this could very easily occur. The simplest way to have avoided it is to NOT tie the dog up out of your direct supervison, OR pop a muzzle on if you do choose to do so. Who cares if a muzzled dog 'looks' dangerous?? A muzzled dog is the least dangerous type! lol
Back to mine. two of mine have 'issues', and one I KNOW would bite through fear in similar circumstances. I don't EVER want to be in the position of someone telling me my dog has bitten (even if it is their own stupid fault), and the easiest way to ensure my dogs safety is to muzzle her when she's off lead (I never tie her up anywhere). The beauty of it is that only ' sensible' people interact with a muzzled dog anyway, so the idiots stay away - job done!
I hope you read right through this, and didn't just thumbs down me at the start! THis is an issue I feel very strongly about - could you tell? ;-)

Answer 10

I also have a recue dog who was formerly abused and also can be very unpredictable around strangers.

I do think that you are at fault, unfortunately because you KNEW the dog was "funny" around strangers w. hats, and you just left her there UNATTENDED. I am sure you are a caring and kind person, and this was just a mistake you made...

But since the child's skin wasn't broken, the woman should have been more grateful -- ALSO: I teach my 2 young girls to NEVER go up to a strange dog -- because you never know what they might do! This woman should have never allowed her child to pet the dog in the first place.

Bottom line: Please stay w. this sweet natured dog next time, and pls. do not leave her unattended. : ) Not to mention all the bad people out there that don't think twice about hurting an animal -- they might HARM her if you are not there to defend her.

Thanks! : )