I want to hear from fathers who feel they have been unfairly treated?

Question

by the law when it comes to gaining custody. I read this a lot on this forum and one of my best friends had to fight hard to gain custody of his child. I'm not familiar with laws & don't have personal experience. I feel passionately about both parents being involved, so I don't understand why a father has to struggle to be allowed to be a father. Please give me specifics of flaws in the law/system.

Please refrain from attacking the ideology of feminism that stands for EQUAL RIGHTS, no more, no less--and by attacking equal rights, you can't argue men's rights. I'm interested in an honest dialogue and solutions, not finger pointing.

OK. If there are laws that FAVOR women over men, that would not be considered feminism in my opinion. Feminism stands for equality to me, like I said, no more, no less.

Abuse of laws, lies, deception have to do with the system, not the original idea of equality. Please keep those apart.

Wow, for those of you who are attacking me for jumping the fence. A child needs two parents, maybe it's the mentality of "you have to pick a side" that gets the child confused, hence raised with one parent. Shame on you!

Answer 1

While I'm not a father (or even male) most of my friends are. And given that we're all in our late 20s to early/mid 30s, most have children and most have been or are going through divorces. So, for what it's worth...

One of my friend's wife announced that she was pregnant with another man's child and wanted a divorce, but kept putting off filing. My friend finally filed after he found out that if he waited than he would be responsible for the baby, even though it wasn't his. However, the mother claimed that because he filed for divorce first, he obviously didn't want his children since he was the one "leaving" them. My friend also has clinical depression, and the mother claimed the medication he took and his depression made him an unsuitable father. He was depressed and on drugs for a few months right after he found out that his wife had been having an affair and was pregnant. It took around 4 years and a ton of legal bills, court dates, ect. in order for him to get equal custody of his children.

On the other hand, one of my former friends declared he did not want custody of his children. He was willing to pay child support as long as he didn't have to do anything to physically raise the kids. His rational was that he was too busy to be bothered by the kids, and that having them on the weekends would make it impossible for him to date.

The time in history where children were the sole custody of the father, because women were property of men and therefore couldn't have possession of children, is past. Feminism helped make that happen. It was an important achievement for women to be recognized as autonomous beings who had as much right to their children as their male counterparts. However, at this point, it is time to realize that counter-productivity has been reached and what is actually happening is that we are disavowing fathers who truly want to be there for their children. This is not entirely the fault of feminism. The blame also lies with fathers like the second one I have mentioned, who want nothing to do with their children on a regular basis. It lies with the number of people who procreate without thinking about the responsibilities that entails. It lies with the women who lie about their children's parentage, and the men who do not step up and take responsibility for what they have helped create.
Judges are as human as everyone else, and they become hardened over time from hearing the same tired stories from the same sources. They know all the legal ploys that attorney's use...and get really tired of the "must win at all costs" attitude. I know people who would make wonderful mothers and fathers, and I also know people who should have the ability to reproduce taken away from them. It is a mixture of all of these types that walk into a court room every day. The legal system stands for justice, but justice rarely equates into truth. The men that truly want to be fathers to their children should step up and be heard. However, let's lie the blame for the difficulties of this where it really belongs, a flawed legal system and the men who want to reproduce without responsibility.

Answer 2

Me...I have. I am a very loving father. I love my daughter more than anything. I am talking very honestly to you and I am not going to involve definition psychology or other. I will just say what I feel and that is what you are asking. I am now separated from my wife of three years and I am getting a divorce. The thought of being away from daughter kills me. I don't like being away from her and she doesn't like to be away from me. The thing is why must the child stay with the mother? Why can't I just take her...for the plain simple fact that she carried the baby for 9 months therefore she is the main parent...That is just bull. Just because you can have a baby and have had one does not make you a parent...period. It doesn't make you a real mother or father. You have to be responsible and care for the child. It takes both. If there is not then the child is headed for rough seas. Take it from me....I know. I don't think it is right for the child to have to pick sides, it is not fair and the child loves both, but if the mother is never there for the child and is never loving nor nurturing then there are the problems. This is my case, but I can't just go and get her without experiencing laws called parental kidnapping or other. I am at the mercy of her and must abide by them just to make sure that my daughter is safe. Yes there is CPS, but that is if the child is in grave danger, same with a welfare report, so in the meanwhile the child suffers due to the law that protects that mother's rights and forget about father's rights. You may think that the system does not favor but you should take a look at the system and then reconsider. You seem idyllic and that is fine, I think that is good trait to have but sometimes you have to step back and think about things and see what is happening and not what should be happening. My daughter has told her mother that she doesn't like her. I wish that was not true and I wish she was a better mother....but that is not what is happening. See what I mean. I miss my daughter and only have some rights....other lawyers want to charge 8000 for custody battles, money I don't have and wish I did. Being a bad mother is not a crime and is hard to prove.
Have you ever seen liar liar with Jim Carey...good movie. Did you see how the lady won her case and how she is using the child for child support money. The children loved their dad and hate their mom. That is sad but is also what is happening in some parts......
Well, sorry to be so long but you did ask for the truth, and now you have it.

Answer 3

"As one woman in Glasgow told me, with resignation, her son had wanted to apply for custody of the child he had fathered with a teenage girlfriend: "we did ring a lawyer but she told us that even if the girl was the worst drug-injecting junkie in the world, he wouldn't stand a chance." That vignette, which surprised me at the time, was backed up by an experiment featured in a television programme in 1995. An actress and actor visited solicitors separately, posing as spouses seeking a divorce and custody (now called a residence order) of their child. Although they both told the solicitors that the man had taken more responsibility for the child, while the woman had supposedly been more involved with her career and had also had an extramarital affair, all the lawyers advised the woman to go for sole custody and told the man that he didn't have a chance of keeping his son. One commentator concluded that: "These solicitors were not, themselves, anti-father, but were simply reflecting what they knew, or believed to be the reality." Although legislation states unequivocally that the father and mother should be treated equally, in fact residence orders, as one barrister in family law assured me, "would always go with the mother unless there was a compelling reason against her". Many men are irresponsible about their children, but we should still be alive to the idea that potentially responsible men may be pushed away from their families by a culture that sees family life as feminine terrain; a culture that both traditionalist and feminist have reinforced."

Natasha Walter, The New Feminism (1998), pp150-1



I have not had any experience myself, but I can understand the indignance of divorced fathers when the courts give custody to mothers by default. I can also understand the irritance they feel when the modern zeitgeist has branded them "whiners".

Answer 4

WOMAN HERE: BUT I DISAGREE with those who say feminism caused these ills- a society that tells us that caring for kids is women's work (and many men beleive its natural) is the cause.

There are flaws. It happened in my family. My sons' wife got original custody- the law in our state said joint custody had to be "agreed" on. She, of course, would not agree. However, she was the primary parent and should have been the main custodial parent, until she decided she liked meth better than her sons. The court, on the testimony of the police officers ((who found my grandsons in the dog kennel, we had not seen them in a year)), let my son have 'temporary' custody. My son grew as a parent. He became a good father who was involved.

Well she got off probation and the court gave her back those boys (last summer). We have not seen or heard from them since. These little boys did not want to leave dad - but her parents wanted us out of the picture totally. They don't answer phone calls and CPS won't investigate cause we don't have any solid info. My son went back this week to find a PI to find where she is.

So are there problems? YES. First step to fix it = JOINT custody should be mandated UNLESS there is proof it WOULD NOT be in the childs best interest. Second = When the parent plays 'keep away' it should be investigated as child neglect!

Answer 5

It is impossible to refrain from "attacking the ideology of feminism" in light of what has transpired with regard to divorce, custody, child support and alimony.

Read any feminist website for further education into the destruction of the family and the marginalization of fathers via feminism.

It is the bigotry of feminist organizations like NOW that has led to the current deplorable situation of divorce with children.

From the website of California N.O.W. in reference to "court watchers" (which are planted to sway judges rulings).
"By simply being a presence in the courtroom with NOW buttons or other designation, activists send the message to judges, attorneys and prosecutors that they are being watched specifically for how they treat women.", meaning that judges and attorneys better rule in favor of women or else they will be marked action by feminist PAC (political action committee).

Most divorces are filed by the wife, most often for "feeling" issues, not abuse, adultery or any other tangible reason. At the time of filing, they request sole custody most often, which becomes the default against which the husband must mount an expensive and uphill battle. Men almost always prefer shared custody because they realize both parents have value in the well-being of children.

In Arizona, it was found that even when the mother and father voiced an opinion for the father to have custody, in 7% of cases, the mother was handed sole custody anyway. That is how nervous judges are of "court watchers".

Answer 6

I can say this; I got hammered in divorce court in California. The ruling heavily favored my ex-wife, despite the fact we were similar in age and history and neither of us had any detracting factors on the record. She got everything! All I got was the bills and a $300 a month payment. So, whether you want to believe or not, the system is biased against men; at least it was in my case.

Answer 7

i don't have any experience on custody and divorce settlings either but i commend and share your passion on equal involvement of both parents. I grew up pretty much without a father figure because my dad was out making money and my mom, though she worked had to give up her aspirations to raise us. not the kind of life i would want for myself or my future children

Answer 8

Im with mathewssh and winchester 100%. It is impossible to have this argument without the relating the wrongs to womens right aka femininsm.

It is the labeling, dirty tricks, lies, false AVO's, deadbeat dad syndrome and sanctioned perjury by women that the womens rights movement keeps pushing, that is making life very difficult for Fathers and childrens rights after divorce.

I think maybe you need to make a new question

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Who do you think that is pushing this on men. It is women and shemales in the name of womens rights aka feminism

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ProfessorC
Is your ignorance making you feel in a better place. Go and trawl through the www.now.org site and have a look at the many misndrist articles and the agenda they have for womens rights over mens rights(or lack there of). I know it must be hard to be a feminist and the need to deny that feminism is the cause or if not the cause of the past certainly is the cause of the NOW - no pun intended.

Answer 9

I'd like to just mention that feminism is related to the issue you're enquiring about. Check out NOW's site and they openly refer to father's who seek custody as abusers (for wanting custody) and have sent NOW representatives into court rooms to 'support' the mother (aka intimidate the judge) if they believe that judge hands custody to the father more than the mother. To my knowedge, no fathers rights site accuses custody seeking mom's of being abusers nor do they sent 'representatives' to show 'support'. Even if they were to, feminist organisations such as NOW carry genuine political clout - whereas FRA's hold no political clout.

However, my ex used the law to stop me having contact with 'our' children. I have no say in the issue, she demands - she got. So I've spent a considerable time going through hoops for her so I could see 'our' children for 2 hours a fortnight. I was promised it would be only for a short time, the short time lasted in excess of six-months.
I initiated court proceedings as it seems she would not budge from the current 'agreement' (aka me being told what I had to do/was allowed). We got to court, and her own legal representative informed her that she could not continue using the contatc centers without GOOD cause, of which she had none. We saw a CAFCASS officer and he told her the exact same. By the time we got into the court room, a 'true' agreement (i.e. we actually discussed between us, and agreed reasonable contact properly instead of her shooting orders) and the Judge seemed ok with it.
However, my ex has tried to accuse me of 'threatening violence' (which I know is a lie, as does she - I suspect she was following advice from either her legal rep. or her feminist mother, yes her mom is a feminist-diseased woman).
Oddly enough, on the day I had my children with me out in the town for a cake & drink, she miraclously turned up at the exact same cafe' we were in, sat with us on the same table, and conversed very civilly with me... showing zero concerns about violence - thankfully witnessed in front of MANY people, a lot of whom I knew (hence my choice in that specific cafe, so old friends could see the kids).

Answer 10

After a divorce are either party truely happy with the arrangements?

I've not had personal experience but I have never spoken to anyone divorced with kids who was happy with the way it was set up.