Do you realize our "forefathers" are outdated?

Question

I constantly see questions and answers on here about how things like the patriot act is unconstitutional and how our forefathers would be ashamed... For what are suppose to be progressive parties, they sure do like to live in the past.

Our country may have been founded a mere 200+ years ago but so much has changed. Now we have bombs that can take out whole cities and destroy whole states' living conditions... people that will fly airplanes as big as a football field into public buildings killing thousands. Our Forefathers have been outdated by technology where just a small group of 100 or so can take out millions in our country with the help of a nuke or two.

I read the Franklin quote regurgitated every day about a person giving up freedom for security deserves neither... Do you think he could even fathom people flying planes into skyscrapers, let alone nuclear bombs? If we're not secure, how long will our freedom last?

Oh, I guess you could just shoot a terrorist about to blow up you or your building or city yourself... Unless of course your anti-gun... Sucks to be you then I guess.

You can't keep anything including freedom if you don't protect yourself and your country.

What freedoms have we lost? What aren't you allowed to do now that you could do before?

I love V for Vendetta. Its a great MOVIE.

Answer 1

never truer words spoken..the founding fathers would agree with you..i'm a fairly close descendant of Alexander Hamilton, his youngest daughter was my great, great, great grandmother,...for whatever that's worth...thus my nickname..a play on the federalist papers..

Answer 2

When they say "Freedom Isn't Free" it isn't only about soldiers fighting wars. In order to live free you have to accept certain risks. If you want to live in an ultra safe, no danger, everything decided for you country then I would suggest a place like Japan or many of the european countries. They aren't totally safe yet but they are doing their best by restricting anything and everything. If you don't want to leave the country then let me suggest the PRK(People's Republic of Kalifornia) or maybe Hawaii.

Now I have no idea how long our freedom will last. I believe Jefferson said;
"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions, it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Now if you read that and think about what Mr. Jefferson said, I think you'll understand that he knew exactly what you are talking about. That people might lose sight of what freedom really is and what it means. That the people might be willing to give up these freedoms, and the government readily willing to take them back, because they don't know what tyranny is like. If you put this quote together with the Ben Franklin quote you have previously mentioned;
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Now I guess its really a choice that the whole nation will have to make, how much safety they are willing to trade liberty for. We have already traded some of it away with the 1994 Clinton/Biden Gun Ban and the "Patriot" act. I'm glad to see that the Gun Ban has since expired but who knows how long that will last with the 2008 elections coming up.

I will continue to try to spread the word about liberty and essential freedoms because I think they are timeless ideas that deserve our full thought and gratitude to the men who originally fought to establish and preserve them.

PS If you haven't yet seen V for Vendetta, I'd highly recommend it. In my opinion it out to be required viewing in high school and college. I'll end my answer with a simple quote from that movie... "Freedom, Forever!"

Answer 3

When you read carefully, Jesus didn't ever say the crucifixion was his intended means of redeeming mankind. The Apostles were at a loss as to how to act after the crucifixion, which had never been on the tables. They'd never been prepared for it and Jesus wasn't prepared for it either, but he'd done his work as a good rabbi, and spread lots of good ideas, some taken from sects, others from Greek philosophy, others from things he'd learnt in Alexandria and maybe in the Dead Sea communities. After Jesus it wasn't so much "how can we understand what Jesus taught" as "how can we make the disappearance of this prophet useful and tie it all up into a logical, new religion". Arguments about what Jesus's appearance and disappearance were supposed to mean went on for hundreds of years. In a few years' time we'll have the publication of the newly found Judas' Gospel. That will put a few cats among the pigeons. Let's hope we get the unadulterated version and not Benedict 16's version.

Answer 4

No I do not. Rather I believe you do not understand the ramifications of what is taking place. The Constitution is the prevailing law of this country and we are a country that is supposed to a nation living under the rule of law. The "forefathers" were very intelligent and perceptive, they authored a documents such as the Constitution that were incredibly thoughtful, through and timeless. Can you not see that your essential freedoms are being pilfered from under your nose? We have less freedom than we had pre-9/11, so I would say your freedom and ULTIMATE security are being eroded as you sit on your porch and watch contently while sipping lemonade.

Answer 5

My first blush answer is the quote is still valid. Our first mission as a nation is to protect our freedom from those who would take them from us and of course freedom of movement allow access by many who would harm us.
But it is this access we can limit to our own people. Its more a matter I think of who we allow to have access. We seem to welcome everyone into our home and this invitation or access allows them access to harm us.
We need to know who is here and keep up with them. I enjoy the freedom I was born with and have seen it eroded. I read 1984 very young. Make coming into the U.S. a little more secure.

Answer 6

The reference to the Founders is meant to discuss their goals and ideals -- not the details of implementation.

Let's say you have to choices for programs -- one is legal, and gets you 90% of what you want -- one is illegal, and gets you 91% of what you want -- which do you choose?

Let's say you can attack one of two targets -- someone who has not attacked you, but you can rob him and get lots of money -- and someone who has attacked you, and might again, but is penniless and you won't get anything -- which do you attack?

Let's say you have two choices -- allow individuals to make a choice about their own lives -- or take that choice away from them and impose a particular set of religious values (taken from one particular religion) on everyone -- which do you do?

The issues that we face are well within the scope of those contemplated by the Founders -- as can be seen by reading their letters and journals of the time -- the details don't change the essential nature of the problem.

As for your "freedom and security" analogy -- even Franklin's quote was limited to talking about essential liberties and the illusion of security -- nobody is complaining about minor intrusions -- those are tolerated as a matter of course.

What people are complaining about is when programs are enacted that cut to the core of our constitutional liberties -- for no reason other than convenience -- and for no benefit other than a power-grab by the politicians.