Why should women Not have equality?

Question

Identical and equal are different concepts. Being Identical is being the same. Being Equal is having the same value. Saying that women should not have equal rights is saying that we are not as valuable. The same for anyone who does not have equal rights because of some difference.

And equal rights does not mean all of the same rights. For example a woman has a right to make decisions about her own body re reproduction.

Do you agree? Disagree?

why?

p.s.
And yes I realise of course that men and women are different and that "equal" may have a few honest ?s.

But isn't that something to discuss like honest and reasonable adults?

Alexandra if they are doing the same job than should they have the same pay and opportunity?

richardjbaker saying that more women and children survived the Titanic is Not saying that women are not opressed in society.

rebirthofyou I love how you make assumptions about me and use silly anecdotes and call them arguments and make ridiculous broad statements about "all" women. Is this what you consider honest and reasonable adult behaviour?

Serin

1st birth control is also a man's choice you know.

2nd men don't have a uterus and vagina and can't go through pregnancy and childbirth. They don't have an "investment" to make.

3rd Hello it takes 2! 18 years of her life And 18 years of his. If he stays. Deadbeat dads are a big source of child poverty.

I Hope that if the unthinkable happened to me that I have a relationship with my partner where we could openly talk about what are we going to do next. But many women are in very bad situations and that is not realistic.

And straight out if it is really an important thing to a man one way or the other than maybe he should talk about that with new women early in the relationship so they understand each other just in case. If they feel differently about it than they would both be more happy with other partners.

da_fett the conquero…I'll try to explain it as I see it re reproductive rights:

Women can get pregnant and men can't and women can't cause anyone to be pegnant and men can. So we both have the right to do what we want to with our own bodies but reproductive rights is for women because men don't get pregnant.

Answer 1

I believe in equality for all people , Have (ing) said that New responsibilities come along with real equality, A man would have a right to agree with what a woman does to her body, that commits him to 18 years of financial responsibility. In the case of single woman becomes pregnant and makes the decision to keep the child. They both have the responsibility to use safe sex, if not married to each other! Yes a couple should talk over their philosophy on what they consider as equality in a relationship at the beginning of a relationship, Maybe they will be happier with another partner,
I was the sole provider for my family for 20 years my wife was a stay at home wife trying to raise a family of 5 children on one income. I told her it was time for her to get a job and help meet the family responsibilities and she refused. We are now divorced and she has a full time job and I am retired enjoying my golden years with a new wife.

Yes woman have a right to equality and a right to fulfill the responsibility/change that come with full equality.

Answer 2

But if women have every right men have + reproductive rights, then women have more rights than men. Therefore it's not equality.

Equal and identical are one and the same. If one is not the same, then one will always be better. People always say ''It's like comparing apples & oranges.'' Well one is better. To me, apples are better. So apples and oranges are NOT equal since one is better than the other. A plane is not equal to a car. You can't be equal to something if you're not the same.

So if we were to have equal rights, then women due to reproduction should have more rights is what you're saying. Therefore, women & men do not have equal rights since men don't have as many rights as men. We'd need to give more rights to men in one area to make it more ''equal''.

PS: After a set amount of weeks, it's not ''her'' body anymore but a new body.

PSS: If the woman aborts, the man should be compensated since he's sperm was not used for what it was supposed to.

You say: ''It takes 2 to make a baby'' but then you say ''men don't have a uterus or a vagina and don't have an investment to make''. Hmm men MAKE an investment EVERY TIME they make a woman pregnant!

What richard is saying is that the MEN DIED for the WOMEN. They could easily have pushed them aside and save themselves, but no; they saved the women.

EDIT: Men don't have everything going for them, either, you know? Women's lives were always more valued than men's.
Men only tried to protect women: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtJ10HgHmJuZXW3xjKlEUODty6IX?qid=20070808200633AAbQ1N0&show=7#profile-info-41Dwgx0Caa

EDIT: What da_fett is saying is correct. If:
women's rights = men's rights + reproductive rights
and
men's rights = men's rights + nothing
Then women have more rights and things aren't equal. Therefore we should give more rights to men elsewhere.

Furthermore, it's unfair that in pregnancy, men have all the responsibilities and women all the rights. If women have rights, they should also have responsibilities. If men have responsibilities, they should also have rights.

Answer 3

I don't think that women shouldn't have equality. However, with rights comes responsibility.

Before I continue, know that what I have to say next may sound hostile but it isn't meant to be. I will try and take each of the points you made and show you why I agree or disagree.

1. "Identical and equal are different concepts. Being Identical is being the same. Being Equal is having the same value".

I think you left out some parts of the definition of the word equal.

Equal: adj. 1 the same in quantity, quality, size, degree, rank, level, etc. 3 having the same rights or status
synonyms 1,3 identical, mirror-image, the same, one and the same, interchangeable, level, fifty-fifty, on a par,coequal,equivalent

Identical: adj. 1 agreeing in every detail 2 one and the same
synonyms 1,2 twin, duplicate, matching, equal, same, the same as, etc.

So equal means more than just equal value. Rights are given to people because nobody is better (of greater value) than anyone else. Thus all people have identical value. Otherwise certain peoples would recieve rights (in this case priviledges) that others wouldn't have. If all human beings are equally valued then they have identical value. If equal rights have the same value for both sexes then they have identical value for both the sexes.

In order to prove that identical rights and equal rights are different, one would have to find a right that is different in value yet still equal in value. That is to say the right itself and not the implementation of that right is different yet still equal.

2. "For example a woman has a right to make decisions about her own body re reproduction"."Being Equal is having the same value".

Feminism is about the equality of the sexes. But women have reproductive rights which are not given to a man. So what you are saying seems to be represented like this:

women's rights= men's rights + reproductive rights
women's rights= men's rights

therefore

men's rights = men's rights +reproductive rights?

That doesn't make sense. What seems to be the case here is the advocation of different yet equal rights. This to me sounds like the concept of 'separate but equal' repackaged. I am not saying that it is exactly the same as 'separate but equal' but similar in that it "justifies giving different groups of people separate facilities or services with the claim that each group still receives equal quality of treatment". That seems to be what you are advocating. However, I think you need to clear up what you mean by identical and equal rights by perhaps offering an example of a different yet equal right.


3. "Saying that women should not have equal rights is saying that we are not as valuable. The same for anyone who does not have equal rights because of some difference".

No problem there.

4."And equal rights does not mean all of the same rights. For example a woman has a right to make decisions about her own body re reproduction".

Again one would have to prove that there is a such thing as different yet equal rights. If we take the phrase "and equal rights does not mean all the same rights" alone does that mean that some people should have rights that other's don't "because of some difference"? How is that equal? If that is what you meant then that negates the what you said earlier:

"Saying that women should not have equal rights is saying that we are not as valuable. The same for anyone who does not have equal rights because of some difference".


I seem to have a problem grasping the concept of different yet equal rights. I think it would be helpful to offer up an example of such a right. This has boggled my mind long enough.

Edit: Okay but the problem still remains of

Women's rights=men's rights + reproductive rights.

I agree that men have a right to do with their bodies as they will. But 'I love women' pointed out something worth noting. In pregnancy men have all the responsibility and women have all the rights. That doesn't seem to make things equal. The only way I can concieve of that one can grant equal but not identical rights to both sexes is if the concept of 'different but equal' were true (and I still can't fathom how that would be).

1) However, if people are valued equally then they are valued the same. If people are valued the same then they are valued identically. Therefore, if people are valued equally they are valued identically.

2) If people are valued identically then they are valued the same. If people are valued the same that means their value is equal. Therefore, if people have identical value they have equal value.

3) It follows from 2 and 3 that identical and equal are the same thing.

In the case of reproductive rights both men and women are not identically valued thus they aren't valued the same. If they aren't valued the same, then they aren't valued equally. Thus, in the case of reproductive rights, if men and women aren't valued identically then they aren't valued equally. Women in this case get precedence which is the antithesis to equality and identity.

Answer 4

Women already have equal rights...well besides being able to sign up for the draft, but that doesn't seem to be a big concern for feminists for some reason.

Socially men and women are treated differently for several reasons. One is because men and women are in fact different another is a result of personal beliefs which we cannot control nor should we unless those beliefs cause harm to one sex or the other.

Answer 5

Even parents practice this sort of discrimination!
Sometimes a daughter is the beloved one,while in another Family is the boy.Sometimes the younger over the first One(girl or boy).Hey,even between twins,one is not treated equally as the other.I know so,and have been guilty of such.
And more equal than that you can't get,but is so.
Though all are supposed to be treated and considered equally.

Answer 6

Few would argue that women don't deserve to be treated equally under the law. The problem is, what you consider to be "equal" is what I consider to be preferential treatment.

Take your aside on reproduction, for instance. I personally believe that it's a sexist double standard that a woman can choose to abort, abandon, put up for adoption, or keep her child - and no matter what she chooses, the man (whose gametes are just as invested in the zygote as hers) has to abide by whatever decision she makes. 18 years of his life could be devoted to servitude because she nourishes it for 9 months. Women have all the choices; men only have responsibilities.

Naturally, this argument becomes one of choices and "what's best for the child" and all that; it'd take up my whole answer if I let it. But it is merely an example of the reason behind the clash between feminists and Men's Rights Advocates. The latter aren't pushing for taking away "rights" of women; to even argue that is just a strawman meant to paint them as demons and misogynists. Rather, it's trying to say that, hey, maybe men should have a few choices as well ON TOP of having to deal with all the responsibility.

Answer 7

Society already says that men are not as valuable.

When the Titanic sank, they put the women and children in the life boats and let the men drown.
When we had the draft, only men were used as cannon fodder.
Young men pay more for automobile liability insurance.
All men pay more for life insurance.
When a couple separates or divorces, if the man gets custody, he usually provides his own child support.
I could go on and on.

Answer 8

A person with a PhD in structural engineering has earned the title of 'Doctor', just as a physician has, but I certainly wouldn't want the engineer to take out my appendix and I wouldn't want my physician to design a bridge. There is no question of 'value' involved. The differences between men & women go far, far beyond the physical. We perceive, assess and respond to issues differently. We view things from different perspectives. I believe we were intended to use these different perspectives to balance and enhance every aspect of our lives. Let's quit getting bogged down in 'ego' and quit trying to make a negative out of a marvelous positive!

Answer 9

All people, regardless of gender, age, sexual orientation, etc. have the right to be treated in a fair, respectful, equitable and kind way. People should have the right to be treated fairly and to make their own decisions regarding their bodies. Women are just as valuable as anyone else in the world. I can think of no reason a woman should not have equality. My mother is a woman...my girl friend is a woman. I want the best for those people and for all women. Any man who disagrees has some serious issues and should probably be steered clear of.

Answer 10

Women should have equality, so should men! We all should have the same equality and be responsible for our every action.