Faith or works?

Question

I have seen on here many times people saying that works are needed to be saved. I just want your opinion about the following verses. What do they mean?

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

WWJDTU - actually it is not a contradiction at all. You just need to understand the book of James. If you have faith you will have works. But the works do not save you.

Deirdre H - I take no part of the Bible as erroneous. I asked your opinion on the supplied verses. I do not believe we can work for our salvation. No work we can do will add to the price Christ paid. I do believe if we are saved we will have works. We will want to do good and things to please Christ. But I do not believe that is what saves us. So I ask you again what do you think these verses mean if not faith alone?

Answer 1

Allow me to quote excerpts from William MacDonald's commentary on these verses:

"People are not saved by works. And they are not saved by faith plus works. They are saved through faith alone. One reason that works are positively excluded is to prevent human boasting. If anyone could be saved by his works, then he would have reason to boast before God.

If anyone could be saved by his own good works, then the death of Christ was unnecessary (Gal.2:21). But we know that the reason He died was because there was no other way by which guilty sinners could be saved."

I would like to add that I believe the first step is faith. I guess we all know the story of the man who died a pauper because he refused to cash the cheque of a million dollars that was given to him. Salvation is like that - it is a free gift of God and God has also sovereignly granted us the choice of accepting or rejecting it. When we accept it our lives are transformed and Christ lives in us prompting us through the Holy Spirit to live the life that is pleasing in His sight. Good works automatically follow. If you follow the recipe for chicken korma you will get chicken korma and not chilli con carne :-))

When we reject salvation there is no transformation and therefore we cannot please God because we are still in the flesh (Rom.8:8).

Answer 2

When I was in 8th grade, I had a teacher who didn't cite the two verses you did, but told us "You need to be somewhere in the middle" of faith and works.

When I got to high school, I had a much better teacher who got into the examination of the bible verses, and concluded that faith was the only means of salvation. When he started asking us for feedback on what we'd been taught so far, I remember that when he found out we'd been taught there was a middle ground, he pounded the desk:

"No, no, no, no, no, no, no!" he said.

I'm not religious anymore, but the debate still intrigues me because folks still have so much passion about it.

The bible certainly lays out guidelines. But I think that even if the bible laid out a middle ground between faith and works (and I don't think it does) it would make faith pointless.

If we could get to where we want to go on works alone, what good would faith be?

And isn't faith the greatest thing of all?

Answer 3

It's faith but faith based on what you are.
What you do can not damn nor save you.
By scripture all are damned so nothing done can make that worse.
Those saved have to be motivated by unconditional love and not personal gain.
Being saved to live and not go to hell is entirely to selfish.
Learn to love and it all becomes clear.
Few learn to love.

You are saved when you become this new creature and not until then. You do right because you want to. I give time and money but never say how much or what because it doesn't matter. Works is what you are compelled by your nature to do. Tax breaks and struggling to do things because you think it gives you some kind of "points" is a failure to understand. Two kinds of people do works for God. The servant does it for pay. The heir does it because the heir is like the Father.

A cat chases mice because it's the cats nature. You being human can't understand the desire to chase mice. To understand you have to become a cat.

To be saved you have to become a child of God. God is love. You must have unconditional love for all the people in the world. You can't love what you judge, you can't judge what you love.

Answer 4

NOOO not another one of these!!!!

As far as I've been told what really counts is faith. It doesn't matter how big of an ****** you are as long as you have faith. I guess that by extension you will do the work but it doesn't necessarily follow.

If you ask me do the work. You see the work is concrete. It can be measure and you can't go wrong with it. When you do a good thing you know it but more importantly the recipeant of your good deed will appreciate it. Faith is a tribial concept. You can't quantify faith. For example, how can you say person A is more faithful than person B? Plus how much faith you really need is also undefined. I mean is it a little faith, a go to church every day faith. How do we compare ourselves to lets say Mother Theressa? What is the minimum amount of faith I need to have to be admited to heaven? Even more once I get there isn't it the same heaven for everybody or are they going to place you in different areas of heaven based on your faith leve? See what I'm getting at.

Finally there is the prove that God or even slavation even exist question. If there is no heaven rot here is not even a question of saving once self then doesn't it make more sense to do the works. Also, by doing the works because of your good nature isn't it in a small way you showing your faith by imitating Jesus. (or other such good entity that applies to). I mean if you are doing things in good faith or in the lords name or what ever then isn't that good enough to comply with your monthly faith quota? Of course this argument is based on the beleive that faith is what saves you. There are other churches that requires you to accept one particular entity as their saviour in order to be saved. So, just having faith isn't good enough. This is why I say I choose the good work because there is no doubt anywhere in this world that helping others is a good thing. Faith is more of a matter of opinion.

Answer 5

Faith has no expectations and no assumptions - unlike belief which cultivates both. One may have either of these - or NEITHER - and still be driven to "works", which may be for good or evil. Only when one works for the good of others, rather than one's self (as in getting into heaven), can the works be entirely good. Self interest can tarnish every good intention. Thus Christian missionaries did much practical good work - but in their contempt for the world view of others, their destruction of much indiginous culture, and their opening the way for exploitation, they did great harm. Don't fret about getting saved, yourself. Do what you can to save planet Earth's life support systems (it's in big trouble), and whatever you can reasonably do to help others get what they need and ask for (one way or the other). Then the rest will look after itself.

Answer 6

It is by our works that we gain grace. What does that mean? It means only those who truly believe in God, AND His commandments, and repent and obey those commandments are the ones who gain this grace. Grace is the CHANCE to repent and come clean. Cheap grace does not exist.

Paul was a Pharisee, a sect that was obsessed with the works of the Law of Moses. The Animal Sacrifices, circumcision, not eating certain meats, not doing anything on the Sabbath, and assorted other rituals. The Jews did not understand that the Law of Moses were types and shadows of Christ, prophetic symbolisms. Often the Jews did these works grudgingly and without comprehension. The Old Testament even says when they sacrificed an animal it was as if they cut off a dog's neck because their personal lives were filled with iniquity and unbelief. Their works had become dead works, empty rituals, filthy rags.

Nowhere does Paul allude to CHRISTIAN works as being filthy rags. After all, Jesus said he himself was needed to be baptized by immersion in order to fulfill all righteousness. Right after he was baptized a voice from heaven said "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased" and the Holy Ghost lit upon him in the form of a dove. I can't imagine a Christian would consider the work of Christ's baptism was a filthy rag, especially with the Father Himself shouting from heaven "This is my beloved Son" right after he was baptized.

Peter mentions that there are many teachings of Paul that are hard to understand and that the unstable wrest...

2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

One of the false doctrines of some Evangelicals is the doctrine of "Once Saved, Always Saved". This doctrine teaches complacency and a lack of diligence against sin. Even Paul did not take his own salvation for granted...

1 Cor. 9: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Answer 7

I believe it means just what it says....... salvation is a GIFT , once you do something to earn that *gift* it is no longer a gift....... but, after a person is saved, becomes a *true child of God *, that person should *want* to freely serve God, returning the gift to others....... The *works* become a natural and personal part of their salvation..... If works got people into heaven, we would all be able to brag about *what* we did to get there, each trying to over ride the others good story........... go in peace..... God bless

Answer 8

By faith alone was a heresy that Martin Luther came up with so that he could take it easy and leave the Church (which is actual work, no pun intended). Protestants eliminated 7 books from their "Bible" and mutated the rest of the verses to fit this heresy.

It is not difficult to have faith that God exists. It is a knowledge we are born with and by that faulty logic, everyone should go to heaven. It is necessary that we show Our Lord that we love Him, not just think of Him in our heads.

Answer 9

In Ephesians Paul addressed believers that they were justified in the sight of God by grace and it is a free gift of God, all we have to do is accept it by Faith.

James was challenging his listeners, show me thy faith with out works and I will show my faith that works...

I don't see any contradiction.

Romans 3:20
Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:21
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Answer 10

Paul had it right, and James was a legalist who had it wrong. James was no Apostle, and neither was he a disciple of Jesus during the ministry of Jesus.

I saw what you said to another answer, I do not agree with you. Reconciling James and Paul is a typical mistake by modern Evangelicals and many Roman Catholics.

Paul was right about faith. Faith in God brings the works of the Holy Spirit, and only those actions would be the ones which have eternal implications.

James could not see this. James could not see a lot of things if you ask me, including what Peter said in Acts 15 at the Council at Jerusalem. Peter had it right, and no one listened to him either.

But reconciling James and Paul is a mistake. And I would prove it to anyone who has the mind of Christ on these matters.