They argue that God has always been God -- "Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God." Psalm 90:2
I'd like to know what other Mormons think of this and how to respond to it (I know an anti-Mormon guy). My own thoughts are that I agree with both sentiments and think we can believe that God was once a man and that He has always been God at least of this world at the same time. I believe the Bible is true and I believe the Church is true and am sure there's no contradiction, at least not to God.
Logically, it makes sense to me that as God is our Father that He would be like us and us like him including having experienced similar trials to ours at one point before the beginning of time. I also think it makes sense that we would be able to become like God because all parents want their children to progress to a point where their children become like them.
Anyway, thoughts?
2007-09-19 09:25:28 · 13 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
There are enough seeming ambiguities in the scriptures that nothing can be proven using only the written word. That's one of the reasons why continuing revelation is so critical, both to ourselves directly and through the prophets.
Personally I believe this condition is intended so we can develop an ability to discern truth instead of just depending on some authority.
Regardless, I find some scriptures valuable in helping people to understand our true relationship with God. To me these relate directly to your question.
Acts 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.
Romans 8:16-17
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
If we are really the offspring of God and potential heirs of all that He has, suddenly the logical extrapolation about God's past doesn't seem so far-fetched.
In addition, consider He may have always been God to us due to His power and intelligence relative to ours.
2007-09-20 05:51:12 · answer #1 · answered by Bryan Kingsford 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Since the original bible has so much material it can not even be picked up, and held,and takes years to read? How on earth can anyone truthfully say , what was is in the original, and has been removed, or left out, to improve, or make it easier to be read?
Google the Bible, and ask how many there are! They will tell you, that there are 237 different Bibles! So what do you do with that?
Who translated it down, and who decided what would be left in, and what would be taken out!
So all of the things that are in the Book of Mormon, could very well have been repeated from the Bible as well, and then removed ,to reduce content , and, who is to say different? We will never know! Will we?
Which is why the King James version is the most acceptable version! Why? I have no idea! Perhaps the Council at Nicea
About God, as for myself, I believe that He was a child once, and learned all the things that we have learned! And He progressed,as He wants us to progress, as His children! I would much rather believe that, than what others believe !Thinking about God, existing for eons, having sprung from nowhere, out of nothingness, and then just hanging around until He decided to create the earth? Please, that is just too much to even conside, as a possibility!
Oh well, people are entitled to believe as they choose, as it is a freedom, given to us in the constitution!
2007-09-19 10:26:34 · answer #2 · answered by Renee 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
If this is the biggest issue you have in defending the logic of LDS doctrine, then count yourself blessed.
The Bible doesn't really make too definitive of a statement either way.
What you might be more concerned about is why, if the Book of Mormon contains the "fulness of the Gospel" (and to a greater extent than the Bible, according to Joseph Smith), doesn't it talk about Temples, eternal families, endowments, eternal progression, apostolic succession, priesthood offices (or ordinations), degrees of glory, or God being a man?
I'm all for defending the Church and its members, but please don't feel like you have to defend every little doctrine that evangelicals poke fun at. I am a member of the Church in full good standing, and since I realized that the Church isn't true, my life has been much more fulfilling. I can see the Church for the value that it brings into the life of my family without occupying my thoughts with doctrinal technicalities, conflicting scripture verses, deciding which of Joseph Smith's prophecies were just "personal opinion," etc.
Email me if you have further questions. I'd be happy to share some insight into "life as an active disbelieving Mormon."
EDIT: Moonman, the exact words are as follows:
"As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."
The words were spoken by Wilford Woodruff in a General Conference talk shortly after he became prophet, and although they appear black-on-white in the Gospel Doctrine manual, you're right, they're not Gospel Doctrine. I apologize for conceiving such an errant idea.
2007-09-19 09:38:21 · answer #3 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 2⤋
Not a Mormon. I do not believe you can adequately defend from the Scriptures that God was ever flesh and blood, that He was ever anything other than the God of the universe, the only God of the universe.
Num 23:19 God is not a man that He should lie, or a son of man that He should repent. Has He said, and shall He not do it? And has He spoken, and shall He not make it good?
Isa 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? Jehovah, the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth; He is not faint, nor does He grow weary; there is no searching to His understanding.
2007-09-19 09:38:53 · answer #4 · answered by BrotherMichael 6 · 1⤊ 1⤋
We are all eternal beings. None of us have a beginning or an end. Before we were born we were spirits, before we were spirits we were intelligences. God was the same way. Somehow He went through the same process we are.
I'm starting to get really tired and bored of the people who ask us to "prove" every doctrine with the Bible. If they ask questions like that, they are not interested in learning, only arguing. We shouldn't feel the need to justify or prove our beliefs. We should be able to explain them. I'm finding there is a big difference between the two.
2007-09-19 09:58:48 · answer #5 · answered by Senator John McClain 6 · 6⤊ 0⤋
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2016-10-09 11:50:10 · answer #6 · answered by ? 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
One thing to be clear about. That couplet was penned by someone else after a speech by Joseph Smith, but the exact words are not doctrine.
I would say that we believe that God always has been, even though we may believe that God was once like us in that He was tried and tested. I think that if someone does not accept this answer they are probably just looking for a fight or debate, as it sounds like they are likely doing, since the couplet itself says nothing about God being created or formed at any point.
2007-09-19 17:03:46 · answer #7 · answered by moonman 6 · 1⤊ 0⤋
I seriously do not see how the scripture you quote would contradict the doctrinal issue in question.
Accordingly to LDS doctrine, God the Father, his son Jesus Christ, AND you and I were in existence prior to the earth being formed and created. God the Father, his only begotten son in the flesh Jesus Christ, Adam, Noah, Jeremiah, you and I all lived in the pre-mortal existence and took part in hearing about God's plan for us: the plan of salvation. We shouted for joy when it was brought forth by the Savior. (Job 38:7) What role we each personally had in the creation of the earth, the mountains, etc I do not know. But God and Jesus Chris formed the earth. Of course they would have been in existence prior to that. We all existed as spirits, or intelligences and we are eternal. Those intelligences were not formed. They always existed through the eternities.
The doctrine of "as we are , he was was" is not effected by this scripture.
2007-09-19 10:14:05 · answer #8 · answered by Kerry 7 · 3⤊ 0⤋
Well, the bad thing is, most people who ask a question - the "anit's" I mean - they are just wanting to start an argument and we shouldn't give in to the contention because we know who the father of contention is...
Anywho, really the only thing you can do is bear your testimony and share that we believe in modern revelation...
You have a good point about having a Father and Him wanting us to become like Him so stay with that I guess.
Sadly, most people just want to "prove" their point and get you to change your mind...the saddest thing is they don't even know they are doing what satan wants - trying to lead others from the truth of the gospel.
2007-09-19 09:32:44 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 1⤋
It all come down to how they and us understand the scriptures.
Arguments on doctrine will create conflict, and will drives the spirit away
My take, as LDS we just present our side of belief, whether others accepted or not is really their choice. It is not our responsibility to prove it, but rather are those that heard the doctrine need to ponder for its truth.
If they have the spirit, or enable the spirit to work in them, them they will know what is truth.
2007-09-20 20:42:29 · answer #10 · answered by Wahnote 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋