Strong hands oop #2...?

Question

You have pocket 5's on the bb against a tag. 1/2 effective stacks 400 6 handed. TAG raises utg to 6 you call. Flop comes out 3c 5c Ad. You think he has an ace 75% of the time. He could also have JJ-KK 10% and the other 15% is KQ, KJ or some random crap.

Which line do you take if you want to stack him completely? Bet into him and keep betting on all other streets? Check/ raise on the flop and then take control on all other streets? check/call and then c/r turn then lead out river?

Its not which line to stack him completely.

I actually want to know which line is more profitable. Thx guys

If i was villian and you c/r me im not sure i would fold AK, or AQ espically with those draws out there. I might fold on the turn, but definitly not on the flop espicially since you play a loose game. PS: i usually play tag

Answer 1

the most profitable play is absolutely and completely opponent dependent here...if our opponent were LAG, i think the best play would be to c/r given the read because he would definitely bet and possibly go nuts for us and just shove it with just the top pair, since that board looks pretty dry

however, since our opponent is TAG, you would figure that he has the discipline to fold an ace against a c/r, so that's not the best play...considering the read we have here the best play is to lead out, and then you can decide what to do from there...if he has an ace, he will raise you every time, and from there i would probably slow down and just call, and then check the turn and decide where to go from that point...if he has K-K, Q-Q, J-J, and the like, he will probably call or possibly raise, not expecting you to lead out with top pair since he was the pre-flop raiser, although he will probably fold a small percentage of the time as well...if he has junk, then you might induce him to bluff you, again figuring you probably don't have too much to lead into the pre-flop raiser, and again then you can slow-play it and see how much more you can make

i think betting out, with this very specific read, is the best play, but as you can see there are certain benefits to c/r that make that play legitimate as well

edit: i do understand that oftentimes our villain will not fold an ace here, but i still think that leading guarantees us more money than c/r in this specific situation

Answer 2

I'd lead out after the flop. Take his continuation bet away from him and bet 1/2 the pot or so. With luck, you'll get action right away.

If the action is light, I'd reraise again, but keep it near the minimum. Make him want to stay, but get more chips in the pot, preflop. If the action is heavy, I'd start to fear an AdXd hand, and just call. He won't go away pre-flop with that hand, so there's no reason to try to push him off.

Post-turn
If there was no pre-flop action, I'd attempt the check/raise, unless the card comes up diamonds.

If there was light pre-flop action, or no action but the turn's a diamond, I'd bet 3/4 or so. Don't give free cards when he knows you're strong, plus push him away from the draw. Calling 3/4 means he's gotta be A-high, 2 pair, AdX .... or already beating you (gulp!)

If there was heavy pre-flop action and the turn was a diamond, I'm starting to feel beat. The object is to get to the river cheap, or not at all. I'll make a 40-50% bet here, and hope he doesn't reraise. (I think a bet like that is likely to be less expensive than check-call, plus I might win if he folds, and with the action and the flush draw, I'm ok with that.)

And finally, if the action was heavy and the turn's a blank, I'll make a bet near pot size. I want him to have to decide whether I'm bluffing or not. If he's A-high or better, he may just pay me off.

Overall, I like this strategy because it gets chips in the pot if he's strong, even if he thinks I've got a lil something, AND it presents a lot of opportunities for him (as an aggressive player) to try to steal the hand from me.

Answer 3

Ever read Super Systems? Doyle says to bet out in this situation, and he wouldn't lie, would he?

If the TAG thinks his pair of aces is good he's going to come over the top anyway, so if you bet out you're getting more money into the pot, most of the time. You can then re-raise again, and he will most likely release his hand. If you just called his re-raise, you're still giving him a chance to draw out so that's generally not a good play. You're going to lead out with a bet on the turn anyway, so you might as well make the bet now so he doesn't get to see another card.

If he just calls your initial bet, he's likely drawing to the flush so you should make a big bet on the turn unless it hits.

The only time you should consider check raising here is if your opponent tends to fold everything but the nuts but will always make continuation bets if it's checked to him. You could also check raise every now and them to change up your play, but it's not the best play most of the time.

Answer 4

Check call the flop. Let him think he has the advantage early.
I don't think, based on stack sizes and the low size of the pot that you're gonna be able to bust him out here (which is what I think you mean by stack him.) If you bet the flop and get lucky enough to be called he's not gonna stand for much more than value bets the rest of the hand.
The problem is that you'll have to bet the turn after the check-call on the flop, too. You have to bet him either way and you can't bet him too high if you want to keep him in. Unless he improves on the turn (and you're hoping he 2 pairs) he's not likely to reraise you. You're kinda stuck in the same pattern all the through on this hand. You can't bet more than 50 or MAYBE 100 on the river either. It's gonna be hard to get any decent money out of him if he doesn't improve the aces, he's likely to keep limping. All I can say is hope to hell he improves.
UPDATE
Oops, lost track of the flush draw here. Since he is TAG I'd strongly consider betting the flop hard to get him off of the draw. There is a possibility he's playing suited high cards. You might want to grab and go on this hand.
(NOTE: Yes it's still me, I just had to change my yahoo account and they reset my "answers" stats.....bastards.)

Answer 5

With this kind of flop it of course does all depend on the player and your position. If i know he bluffs a lot i may check and give him a shot to fire at it, then i can come over the top. But with tight players it is always best to just bet right out into the flop, he may fold and you only win the blinds and antes but you won't be risking him hitting gin on the next card. I always like just betting right out in most hands for two reasons. First if he has an ace he is going to come over the top anyways and now you have him trapped for a big pot. And second it will throw then off to what you have, no one is going to think you have a made hand like a set when you firs right out into the pot. The ace may scare off some action if the other guy has two jacks or queens in the hole. But lets say you give the free card to the guy with the jacks, now the turn comes a jack, now you are going to loss a huge to him. I always want to make the other guy pay to hit his hand, plus when you lead out, it give you info on the range of hands he holds as well. With a hand like this i like to bet around 3/4 of the pot, if they call then great, and if they fold thats ok as well.

Answer 6

IF HES A GOOD PLAYER HES GONNA FIRE A CONTINUATION BET OUT. I WOULD CHECK RAISE HIM, IF HE HAS A PAIR OF ACES HES GONNA PAY YOU OFF. AND JUST HOPE ANOTHER CLUB DOESNT COME.