Can I get a Latter Day Saint (Mormon) to comment on the following assertions?

Question

Is the following a correct summation of LDS doctrine?

Atonement
"Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane," (Laurel Rohlfing, “Sharing Time: The Atonement,” Friend, Mar. 1989, 39.)
"We accept Christ's atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments," (Gospel Principles, Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 1979, pg. 68.)
Baptism
Baptism for the dead, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. II, p. 141.) This is a practice of baptizing each other in place of non-Mormons who are now dead. Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
Bible
"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. . ." 8th Article of Faith of the Mormon Church.
"Wherefore, thou seest that after the book hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God." (1 Nephi 13:28).
Book of Mormon
The book of Mormon is more correct than the Bible, (History of the Church, 4:461.)

MANAIA: I see you're one of those who think they are too good to be questioned. Well, in that case, I'll look forward to not seeing your answers to questions.

And your family history is of no interest to me. Get a life, yourself.

Answer 1

Yes. That sounds correct to me. You really know how to do your research!

One thing I'd like to add about baptism for the dead. In our view the person who has died and is baptized by proxy is free to accept or reject the gospel. (Some people have the misconception that the dead are forced to become "Mormon" whether they like it or not.)

And one other thing I'd like to add that I didn't see mentioned. We don't exclude the Bible from our church. We believe that the Bible and the Book of Mormon testify of Christ. Even though the Bible has some parts in it that have been mistranslated, it is still essential for learning about Christ in my opinion :)

Answer 2

To answer your question, NO, this is not a great summation of LDS Doctrine.

A good summation would be the articles of faith.
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1

This is a list of quotes about some often misunderstood doctrines.

Atonement: Christ paid for our sins in Gethsemane. He died on the Cross, sacrificing himself, and overcame death. Together those events make up the atonement. Both were necessary.

Baptism for the dead is mentioned, but not clearly explained in the New testament. We have modern revelation that has made it clear. Yes, Mormons perform baptism for the dead. However I wouldn't put that front and center when summarizing the LDS beliefs. You need to understand a lot of things before that will make a lot of sense.

Again, Mormons are criticized for the "as long as it is translated correctly" phrase. If someone mis-translated something....we don't believe that the mis-translation is the word of God. Should we???

After the the first apostle died in the New testament, another was called. The second died, another was called......so Where are the Apostles? It's not like there were 12 and only 12. The answer is that they were killed off one by one and the church gradually slipped into darkness and apostasy. Constantine, hoping to unite his empire, merged paganism with Christianity. They used the Bible text as it was convenient. Yes, there were things that were removed from the Bible by uninspired men. There are words of prophets that we unfortunatly don't have today.

The reason the Book of Mormon is more correct is because it's only undergone one translation from the original, and that was done by a prophet through the power of God, and not a scholar. The Bible has different versions and different interpretations. The Book of Mormon does NOT have alternate versions or translations. We know that the Book of Mormon is complete.

Joseph Smith said (paraphrasing) "a man can get closer to God by reading the Book of Mormon and abiding by it's teachings than by any other book".

Mormons believe in, teach from, and study the Bible. However, if you're splitting hairs, the Book of Mormon is more accurate.

Answer 3

Yes, to most of it, but there things that need to be understood first. Yes, we believe that Christ atoned for our sins in the Garden. That was the start of it. That is where He took all of the sins of the world upon Himself. It says in Luke 22:41-44 that Christ, while in the Garden, kneeled down and prayed. There was an angel that came to strengthen Him, and He was in so much agony that was sweating blood. What would put Him in such agony? The taking of the sins of the world.

The cross was needed as part of this process, along with the resurrection. Without all of them combined, there is no way we could gain eternal life and salvation. Do we believe that Christ died for us? Absolutely!!!!! But the cross part was just a small part of a whole. That is why we don't focus on that part. We focus on the resurrection and the Garden. The cross was horrible, and necessary, but that part was so He could overcome death, which came when He was resurrected.

And yes, there are things we need to do to show God and Christ that we accept that gift. That comes when we repent- real repentance, not just saying we are sorry. Not just one time, but our whole lives. You don't just sin once in life, it's an ongoing thing, and that's what the atonement is for. We have to continually repent of our wrongs. Being baptized is the second step in having the atonement work for you. The first is faith. If we don't have faith, it doesn't matter what else we do.

Receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, by someone who has authority to give it (priesthood) means that we have that with us all the time, not just in spurts. We can have the Holy Ghost there with us to help us when we need it, to help get answers to questions, and to help us understand right from wrong. Anyone can feel the spirit, that is given to everyone. Having it with you always isn't. Without this spirit, we have a harder time discerning when something is of God. The spirit will always whisper peace and love, not confusion and doubt. So having it with us always is a wonderful gift in that process.

We have to keep the commandments that God has set up. That is part of being a Christian, as far as I'm concerned. Without following the commandments, how can we be close to God?

Baptism for the dead is hard for people to understand. It is a biblical concept. It isn't something we just pulled out of the air. 1 Corinthians 15:29 talks about baptism for the dead. It was done back in the old testament too. It was also done by the Jews during Jesus' time. Just because we baptize someone here on earth, doesn't mean they will accept the gospel. It is a gateway for them, if they want it. If not, it's their choice. They aren't counted on the churches records because they are dead. It isn't about membership, or padding numbers, or trying to make our church look bigger. It's about giving the dead a chance at eternal life in the presence of God and Christ forever. As far as "Mormon heaven" I've never heard of that. If you mean the different kingdoms, that is also talked about in the bible. 1 Corinthians 15:40-41 talk about the different degrees of glory. Paul also talked about it in 2 Cor. 12:2. It isn't an unbiblical concept. We do believe that everyone will have a place in heaven. There are only a very few that won't be, and they will be the people who have denied the Holy Spirit. Of course, no one will be sent somewhere they didn't want to go in life. So just because you want to be with Christ, if you didn't live your life the way Christ taught, you really didn't want to be with Him.

The bible is the word of God. We believe in the bible, we study the bible, we follow the teachings in the bible. We do believe that through the ages, things have been taken out, or changed by scholars, or other people, and some of the more precious truths have been either changed or taken out. That doesn't mean we shouldn't follow it, or believe in it. The Book of Mormon, on the other hand, hasn't been changed from the original translation. It's had a few minor things done, like change of spelling, had verse and chapter headings put in, but nothing big. There is only one translation, and there will always be one translation. This is the reason it is more correct then the bible.

Answer 4

Yes, we beleve that. Did you know that alot of this was actually beliefs that were around when Christ taught. Especially baptism for the dead. Even non LDS historians and theologists have reasearched this and found out it was a practice of early Christianity. About the part where you say Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.
This is not nessasarily true. They can be now able to receve it if they wish, but they dont have to. Remember that all people are judged for their own actions that they do. There is a lot more that can be added to those quotes above, but those are ok statements

Answer 5

>"Jesus paid for all our sins when He suffered in the Garden of Gethsemane,"

Technically, from waht I was taught, Christ took on our sins in the Garden, and paid for them on the cross. and all this is part of the atonement.

>"We accept Christ's atonement by repenting of our sins, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and obeying all of the commandments,"

Well, yes, but first, we have to have faith in the Lord, Jesus Christ.

>Baptism for the dead...Their belief is that in the afterlife, the "newly baptized" person will be able to enter into a higher level of Mormon heaven.

Our belief is that they have a CHOICE to accept or reject said baptism done in their name.

>"We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

Would you accept it if it were not translated correctly?

Answer 6

The short answer is "yes." These are small pieces of the doctrine...you have at least three different topics (atonement, baptism for the dead, and scriptures) listed here. You can find more in-depth information on the office LDS web site at www.lds.org. They have a good search feature that will bring up various articles, talks, and scriptural references.

There are also over 100k full-time missionaries throughout the world that spend all of their time teaching these principles/doctrines (you can't miss them as they all wear white shirts/ties and black name tags). They would be more than glad to answer any of your questions if you would rather get your information from face-to-face conversation.

Answer 7

Yes
Yes
Kind of...there is no "Mormon Heaven" it's all one Heaven...as far as entering a higher level...not nesscessarily.
Yes - because people mistranslated and often incorrectly re-wrote it
The Book of Mormon is more correct, based on translations and being the word of God. The Book of Mormon just testifies of the people of the lost fold that Jesus spoke of. We believe the bible to be true and the word of God...but we cannot be sure what was said by God and what was written by a monk.

Answer 8

By definition, a sumation is a sum, a total.

There's a LOT more to LDS doctrine than what you've stated here. Yes, these statements are correct, as far as they go.

The Atonement---
This was a two-part act by Jesus Christ for our salvation- there was the payment for our sins in Gethsemane (which is what you covered) and there was His resurrection- preceded by His death(which you did not cover). These two things together make up the Atonement.

The faith/works balance- Yes, faith is required, as is works. If I fell in a pit more than about 6 feet deep, there's no way I'd be able to get out alone. Jesus has a rope (Atonement) that He's willing and eager to use to save me from death in this hole. Yes, I have faith that this rope is long enough, strong enough to pull me out. I have faith that once Jesus lets that rope down to me, he won't drop the rope and laugh at me, but that He will pull me up. But that rope hanging down the side of the hole does no good unless I grab hold of it and tie it around me (works). The rope is already there. The rest is up to me.

Yes, God's grace and Jesus' sacrifice are what saves us, but we must use it, apply it in our daily lives for it to do any good.


Baptism---
Baptism is considered vital for salvation. Without baptism, a person is damned. There are a lot of people who've lived and died without an understanding of who Jesus is, what He has done for us. To me, baptism for the dead is a hands-on lesson in the mercy of God. Baptism for the dead isn't forced on those people- they still have the choice to accept or reject it, but it gives them the opportunity to be saved along with those who have heard of/accepted Jesus Christ in this life.


Bible/Book of Mormon--
Do you really trust everything you read?? Unless it claims to be truth from God and I've checked with Him (prayer), I don't live my life according to it. The Bible is the word of God, translated by men, through the power of men. The Book of Mormon is the word of God, translated by men, through the power of God.... a tad bit more reliable if you ask me. But they're BOTH the word of God, they BOTH lead to salvation, they BOTH have the Living Water. We teach out of both on a regular basis.

Answer 9

This is fascinating stuff! I'm interested in the similarities between LDS and JW doctrine. So far, I've found that both groups hold that the bible has been corrupted and inadequately interpreted by mainline christians, and that you need the bible PLUS something...either the Watchtower or the Book of Mormon. Kind of ironic,lol.

Polyman, I think that Manaia(c) guy just called you out! lol

Answer 10

We believe that the Atonement occured both in Gethsemane and on the cross. I don't have the exact reference, but James E. Talmage talks about it in "Jesus the Christ."

I wouldn't say these are summations of our beliefs as much as parts of our beliefs. There are a lot more of our beliefs that aren't included here.