If they couldn't get the prophecies that identified The Messiah right...?

Question

What makes you think they got anything else right or could tell what was or wasn't the word of God? Jews have had The Messiah prophecies a lot longer than Greeks and Romans, so they knew exactly what was prophecied and what wasn't. Yet, somehow Greeks and Romans have convinced the world that they know Hebrew prophecy better than Hebrew, and that their version of the Jewish Messiah fulfills the prophecies (of course, they never state what those prophecies are, because they know they have no list, just a bunch of scriptures that they took out of context).

Chrisitans, why do you never ask Jews about Jewish scripture? You are being terribly deceived if you think Jesus is the Jewish Messiah, and all one has to do is ask a Jew what the prophecies are. But I don't expect you to do that. You like your beliefs unfounded and completely detached from the religion from which it came, so I expect you'll just brush this off as blaspheme.

But what would a Jew say about this?

http://www.messiahtruth.org
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org

http://www.sacred-texts.org

Gnostic, you know you're one of my favorite christians, but you know like I know that the credibility of the bible rests on everything in it being true. If it's false in any way, then it is not entirely the word of a god, and since it makes claims that are unverifiable, if any of it is false you really can't trust any of the things that can't be proved.

You may want to rethink saying that prophecy doesn't occur the way it's expected. That is kinda the whole point of prophecy. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of guesses and poetry.

utuseclocal483, you may want to take a look at the links I've posted. Everything I've said can be proved to be true, everything you've said can be proved to be false. You may not want to believe it, but the truth about this matter is out there. Jews are still around, and they still know what is a prophecy and what is not. Christians, on the other hand, do not know what is prophecy and what is not. They just accept that a quoted scripture is prophecy, without ever reading the context from which the quoted scripture came. If you show me a prophecy that Jesus fulfills, I'll show you a mangled scripture taken completely out of context, then show you the real prophecies, which Jesus didn't fulfill.

JohnFromNC, please read the post above you... and then check out the links I posted. If you want to be misled, fine, do so. But if you want truth, you have to seek it. It isn't contained in the pages of the NT. You may try to fool yourself into believing it is, but deep down, you know there are no answers in that conglomerated web of stories.

Tuberoot, thank you for actually talking to Jews, but you are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If I were to say that Jesus said to "bring the unbeliever before me, and slaughter him," you would say "you have to read it in context, Jesus doesn't say to kill unbelievers, that was just a parable." Well, same deal applies with the sciptures you just produced. Read in context, they have nothing to do with Jesus. But hey, here's a few links, just for you. Use the first to read what the scripture you quoted really says. Use the second to compare any others that you may think point to Jesus.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/index.htm
http://www.messiahtruth.com/onslaught.html
http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html#false
http://www.messiahtruth.com/details.html
http://www.sacred-texts.com/zor/index.htm

Tuberoot, just for you:

Zechariah 13:1 In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness. [2] And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, [that] I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land. [3] And it shall come to pass, [that] when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth. [4] And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive: [5] But he shall say, I [am] no prophet, I [am] an husbandman; for man taught me to keep cattle from

my youth. [6] And [one] shall say unto him, What [are] these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, [Those] with which I was wounded [in] the house of my friends. (KJV)
This is a prime example of the light you shine when you put a Christian prooftext in its proper context. Why do I not have a problem with Christians applying verse 6 to Jesus? It is simple: the person who is wounded in verse 6 is indicated throughout the preceding verses as a punished false prophet! What is important to indicate here is that this is the case with MOST Christian prooftexts.

If not mistranslated or fabricated, they are most commonly taken completely out of context.

This isn't a case of it happening once, or twice. This is the very essense of Christianity.

Answer 1

::taking a deep breath::

A Jew would say...

that it's terribly presumptuous--and a tad ironic--that another religion would see fit to say that they know our scriptures better than we do...

especially when they discard most of our scripture as invalid!

A Jew would say that it's insulting to be told, time and again, that we are "blinded" to the truth, when we seek constantly for Truth.

A Jew would say that most Christians don't know what they're talking about, and don't KNOW that they don't know.

Christian presumption would be mildly annoying, but of no great consequence--if it weren't for the fact that much of antisemitism and violence toward Jews was the result of Christian mis-understanding.

Even today, when many evangelicals are 'friends' of Jews, that friendship seems a little tenuous. So much Christian friendship has, as its cost, the desire to convert Jews to Christianity.

Because, of course, Christianity will never feel totally legitimate till it manages to convince an awful lot of Jews that their man-god is the Jewish Messiah.

Since religious Jews believe that we must cling to our G-d and our religion, we see these Christian attempts as dangerous to us--as potentially as deadly as any pogrom. Jews have to turn whole-heartedly back to Judaism and G-d, and reject attempts of other religions to win them over. Our scriptures tell us that it's only when we are strong as Jews, rejecting false gods and Messiahs and keeping to our covenant, that G-d's blessings will return to us as a people.

Answer 2

You are approach out, one million.Ask any Christian and even no Christians at present who Immanual is, and I'll wager you are going to get plenty that say Jesus. two. Christ has 2 genelogies within the Bible, one suggests that Joseph is descended from JDavid, the opposite is the lineage of Mary, and when you cross as far back as the primary ebook within the Bible you are going to discover the prophecy that it might be the seed of the lady, that might strike the top of the serpent. three. Prophecies continually had a double fulfilment within the Bible, if it used to be a protracted variety prophecy, due to the fact that the one approach you would check if a prophet used to be a real prophet of God might be if his prophecy got here real. But while a Prophet used to be prophesying some thing thousands of years down the avenue they might make a brief time period prophecy along side it, and if it didn't come real they woulld no longer think the lengthy variety one both. In the case you're speakme approximately the child to be born used to be the quick time period prophecy (and of path it does not say 'Jesus' within the OT, that's a misquote) and the Baby did died earlier than the countries went into captivity.

Answer 3

There is no need to ask a Jew to explain the prophecies of the Bible. The people of that day knew that the Messiah was coming soon because of the numerous OT prophecies, especially in the book of Daniel. What they did not understand was that the Messiah would first have to die for our sins before the prophecies of the Messiahs reign on earth could occur. Like most of us, the Jews of that day only read and cared about those parts of the Bible which suited them. Jesus Christ fulfilled more than 80 OT Messianic prophecies through His birth, life, death and resurrection. To list them all would take far too much time and space. There is a specific prophecy in Daniel which stated precisely when the Messiah would appear in Jerusalem, to the day. This prophecy was uttered hundreds of years before Jesus Christ was born. Jesus also fulfilled this prophecy. If Jesus of Nazareth was not the promised Messiah then God is a liar because the prophecied time of the Messiah's coming came and went about 2000 years ago. It is no longer possible for this prophecy -among others- to be fulfilled. Jesus knew He was the promised Messiah, as did His followers later on. The Jews still reject their Messiah today because they still don't understand that the Messiah first had to suffer and die. Like the Jews of Jesus day, they also can't understand that the promised Messiah would come to Earth twice. The first time to suffer, die and rise again, the second time in power and great glory to judge the earth. Those who deny that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God are deceived by Satan and blinded by him to the truth.

Answer 4

Paul, Peter and John, were? The beginning of the church was completely Jewish according to the book of Acts. The Gentiles weren't mentioned until later.

You'll find Jews who believe Jesus was the Messiah and you'll find many who don't. Same in the non-Jewish community. So what. It has no relevance. What man believes doesn't change fact. Jesus was the Messiah.

Edit: I looked at you web pages. No. They are incorrect. Read the O.T. and listen to the men who walked with him day after day. By the way, it wasn't just 12 guys. Thousands believed Jesus was who he said he was. Again, the book of Acts tells the story. It started out all Jewish. But sin has a way of side-tracking you. The Gospel (Jesus) will never lose it's significance. Rather than waste your time searching for contrary proof, try the Truth.

Answer 5

Prophecy NEVER occurs as expected Hal Lindsey should learn something here.

EDIT: Nope no reconsideration. Prophecy is only known after it's fulfilled. No instance has occurred with a population expecting a specific result watching and NO the scriptures are compromised. Seek truth from within not from scriptures.

Answer 6

You asked,
"Chrisitans, why do you never ask Jews about Jewish scripture?"

I do. But I must filter what is being said depending upon the subject. If it has to do with the Appointed Times or customs or Israel, I let them say anything they want. They typically are telling me about Christ without even knowing it.

But when it comes to Christ, they were prophesied to not know Him, but only a remnant would. It was prophesied.

*God said that Jews as a nation would not believe.*

So when it comes to a non believing Jewish person, I understand that they will most certainly get it wrong.

I count on it.

The Jews (who are the 'builders' ), rejected the capstone, and whosoever puts their trust in Him will not be ashamed.
Psalm 118
22 The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone;
23 the LORD has done this,
and it is marvelous in our eyes.

Zechariah 13
6 If someone asks him, 'What are these wounds on your body ?' he will answer, 'The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.'

and then Moses wrote about the unbelief of the Children of Israel, God having promised a promise which is being fulfilled as we live,
Deuteronomy 32
20And he said, "I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith. "

And so He did!
21 "They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

And so He did.

My message to you is: God is trustworthy. He can be believed and trusted for what He says He will do. God said that He will do these things, and never took it back. The 'right hand ' of the Lord has come, and became the capstone that the builders rejected, how much more does one need?

Here's a confirmation:
John 8
23 And he said unto them, "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. "

And this:
7 "If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

I am saying that he is the one who gave you the Sabbath.

Answer 7

because early jews did not accept christianity, the early christians had to convert pagans. to do so, they added pagan ideas to the religion to make it more palatable.
now, much of christianity has nothing to do with judaism, or to what jesus actually preached. ideas like the resurrection, original sin, condemnation to hell, predestination, and many more are not found in judaism, but are found in paganism, and in christianity.

p.s. whether or not a jewish person is zionist has nothing to do with it. zionism just means support for the jewish state of israel.

Answer 8

Most Jews have nothing to do with Christians,
or other non- Jews.
There was a reason for this,
Until Jesus came.

Christians Worship the same God as the Jews.
The God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob.
God is God.

One day they will know this,
God is for All.

Answer 9

The Old Testament text that says the Messiah would be executed like a common criminal has been lost forever.

Answer 10

If your belief's are as the Pharisees and Sadducee's. You are not fit for the kingdom of heaven. What does the word of God say. Jews? Did they mean anything to Jesus? Romans 11.