when the doctrine of the Trinity "per se" is not explicitly described in Scripture?
It's not "whoever believes in the Trinity shall not perish but have everlasting life" or "If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that God is a Trinity you will be saved."
So what's the big deal?
2007-09-16 17:37:07 · 12 answers · asked by Gruntled Employee 6 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Edge: that verse does not appear in the earliest manuscripts of 1 John so we need to discount that verse. Sorry.
2007-09-16 17:42:10 · update #1
okay, Edge, the NIV and ESV translations do not include this verse, translations which are obviously produced by orthodox evangelical Christians.
PS you don't know me at all, you know nothing about me yet you can call me a heretic?
2007-09-16 18:53:52 · update #2
okay Edge, thanks for clearing that up. I misread.
2007-09-20 11:13:37 · update #3
So, which person of the Trinity do you not believe in then ... God the Father, or God the Holy Spirit?
If you don't believe in the Father, then there was no one to eternally beget Jesus.
If you don't believe in the Holy Spirit, then there was no Pentecost, and there is no church.
If you deny them both, then the account of Jesus' baptism in the Jordan is a lie.
That's the big deal.
2007-09-16 18:18:47 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 3⤋
I have a similar Q posted, now.
Apparently, we aren't going to get a straight-forward answer.
I went & looked up the word 'heretic,'
it's meaning is applied to any1 whom does not conform to the Roman Catholic church.
Also, if u are baptized into said church & u reject any articles of said faith u r a heretic.
The opposite of this church (yes,it actually said this)
is a protestant. @ dictionary.com
So, then I would have to say that this word 'heretic'
came from the roman catholic church.
There was no defination listed, that "didn't" have to do w/ said church.
Soooo u r a heretic if u don't accept the teachings of the roman catholic church.
They r doing the will of their father the Devil aka Satan.
I almost forgot...the trinity is a LIE!!!
To answer ur Q:
Because, the roman catholic church is So Polluted
with Paganism
that it can't see...The God, YHWH aka Jehovah.
Let's take a closer look, shall we...?
They worship idols-crosses, statues of various ppl's.
They worship any1 Besides God,-Jesus, Mary,
the cross, the apostles.
They venerate Mary-pray to her.
They are in bed w/ the world, and worldy affairs--
WAR: we aren't supposed to KILL.
They follow a man-the Pope
They promote the LIES of Satan the Devil--
trinity, the immortal soul, they find anything/one acceptable
regardless of the fact that it is a sin; i.e. immoral lifestyles,
HIDE THE NAME OF GOD,
hide the truth about Armegeddon,
lie about Jesus & God,
they Do Not Obey Jesus,
deny that Jesus is a King in heaven-depict him as a babe,
they Do Not Increase the sheepfold our of God & Saviour
(Jehovah is both & Jesus also our Saviour),
they Do Not teach others the truth about God's Kingdom,
they baptize babies-Baptism is for ppl whom r old enough
to 'Know' what it is YOU r dedicating urselves to---
was Jesus baptized as a baby?...NO, he was NOT.
He was 30 yrs old when he was baptized by his cousin John.
Make up their own 'saints' as they go along.
Congregational leaders r NOT Scriptually required to abstain from marriage-
that is their own rule--Not from God.
We are NOT to have an elevated clergy class,
ALL disciples of Jesus are to be Ministers,
tell the 'Good News' to ppl of the nations.
Use scare tactics--fiery torment for forever & ever-
YHWH is Love--THAT NEVER came into His heart,
to subject us; His creation; whom He SO Dearly Loves--to such a Horrendous thing; PROOF (of what I just said)---
He sent His Son to Die For Us-
To Buy Us Back from our bondage to sin & death.
I couldn't let, nor stand to watch (or otherwise)
my Only Son Die, for the likes of some of these ppl walking the earth NOW...
or in mankinds history.
Well, DANG! I just clicked on preview...and DANG!!!
The list is LONG.....
And I didn't even mention all the ppl they burned at the stake,
for NOT accepting their Paganistic Lies!!!
Bambi Abi'JAH
(means: Bambi's Father is Jehovah)
2007-09-17 09:36:52 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 0⤋
Because people prefer to follow traditions and teachings of men rather than of Yahweh. . Jesus is the Son of God and is not equal to his Father Yahweh but Jesus is like God because Yahweh has placed Jesus in a position of authority and he is lord . The trinity doctrine does not make this distinction clear.
The real name of God is YAHWEH. the word "God" "Lord" = Ba'al is not the true God.
The Israelites worshipped ba'al not the true YAHWEH for a time.
see http://www.yahweh.com/booklets/Whois/Whois.htm
Many can claim to worship "God", but do they really worship Yahweh? or just "God" = Ba'al = "God of heaven" = false God.
This really distinguishes Yahweh as different from all Gods.
Allah does not equal Yahweh,
Vishnu does not equal Yahweh,
Yahweh is the only true God, merciful, kind and loving Father, I have found in uniting church for example people who always address God as "God" and never as "Father". These often also believe that all religions worship the same God. That is not true. They follow a false god. The trinity doctrine can lead one to worship the trinity or "God" instead of Yahweh, and Yahweh's son Jesus.
2007-09-20 06:49:53 · answer #3 · answered by Sporadic 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
The answer is: When one has a spiritual relationship with God, the Father, through the grace extended to him or her by Jesus Christ, the spiritual dynamics working or resulting from that spiritual relationship make the Triune doctrine very explicit and clear to the Christians involved. Since the groups which do not have this spiritual relationship with God, the Father, through the GRACE of Jesus Christ, (instead place value on the legalistic works of the Old Covenant i.e. "Keeping the Sabbath [ 7th day -Saturday ] and the "Holy days" , to name a few of these "works"), thereby, making and placing the value on "do's & don'ts ", opposed to the GRACE of God. This illustrates, that for a lack of this relationship, it makes it clearly evident, that those non-believers are evident by their ignorance of Trinity.
2007-09-17 01:00:09 · answer #4 · answered by guraqt2me 7 · 2⤊ 2⤋
The trinity is not described in the Bible? Then what does the following verse mean?
1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
If you are going to pick and choose which verses in the Bible are real and which are false then discussion is pointless. I suppose any verse that proves your doctrine incorrect is not true. Maybe this is why you are called heretics.
I did not call you a heretic. I said maybe that is why you are called heretics. Try reading with comprehension. Also even if you remove that verse the trinity is found elsewhere in the Bible. And I will flat out say mormons and JW's are heretics. They are not Christians. They do not follow the Bible and worse yet they do not teach or believe in Hell. The Bible is clear about this subject and they choose to ignore it sending millions to Hell.
It is found in the old Latin and Greek Vulgates dating to around 90-150 AD.
200 AD Tertullian quoted the verse in his Apology, Against Praxeas
250 AD Cyprian of Carthage, wrote, "And again, of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost it is written: "And the three are One" in his On The Lapsed, On the Novatians, (see note for Old Latin)
350 AD Priscillian referred to it [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. xviii, p. 6.]
350 AD Idacius Clarus referred to it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 62, col. 359.]
350 AD Athanasius referred to it in his De Incarnatione
398 AD Aurelius Augustine used it to defend Trinitarianism in De Trinitate against the heresy of Sabellianism
415 AD Council of Carthage appealed to 1 John 5:7 when debating the Arian belief (Arians didn't believe in the deity of Jesus Christ)
450-530 AD Several orthodox African writers quoted the verse when defending the doctrine of the Trinity against the gainsaying of the Vandals. These writers are:
A) Vigilius Tapensis in "Three Witnesses in Heaven"
B) Victor Vitensis in his Historia persecutionis [Corpus Scriptorum Ecclesiasticorum Latinorum, Academia Litterarum Vindobonensis, vol. vii, p. 60.]
C) Fulgentius in "The Three Heavenly Witnesses" [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 65, col. 500.]
500 AD Cassiodorus cited it [Patrilogiae Cursus Completus, Series Latina by Migne, vol. 70, col. 1373.]
550 AD Old Latin ms r has it
550 AD The "Speculum" has it [The Speculum is a treatise that contains some good Old Latin scriptures.]
750 AD Wianburgensis referred to it
800 AD Jerome's Vulgate has it [It was not in Jerome's original Vulgate, but was brought in about 800 AD from good Old Latin manuscripts.]
1000s AD miniscule 635 has it
1150 AD minuscule ms 88 in the margin
1300s AD miniscule 629 has it
157-1400 AD Waldensian (that is, Vaudois) Bibles have the verse
1500 AD ms 61 has the verse
Even Nestle's 26th edition Greek New Testament, based upon the corrupt Alexandrian text, admits that these and other important manuscripts have the verse: 221 v.l.; 2318 Vulgate [Claromontanus]; 629; 61; 88; 429 v.l.; 636 v.l.; 918; l; r.
2007-09-17 00:40:37 · answer #5 · answered by Bible warrior 5 · 3⤊ 5⤋
Because Christians and most others have the audacity to believe that they own G-d. When one declares theirs to be the only true way to nirvana. They, by default , exclude all others of their right to worship and be recognized as even being remotely legitimate. When in truth we neither understand nor possess the ability to comprehend the thoughts of G-d. I would imagine they will have much to explain someday when the soap box is kicked from beneath them and there superiority of elevation is leveled.
2007-09-17 00:50:29 · answer #6 · answered by ringo 4 · 1⤊ 2⤋
Call it what you want, but there is three: God (Creator), Jesus Christ (Son & Savior) and Holy Spirit (The part of God that lives in us). You don't have to call it "The Trinity", but all of them are mentioned in the Bible and the Holy Spirit is so intimate that to reject it, seems insane. How can you reject the Holy Spirit that lives within you when you are reborn? That said, I don't think you have to believe in the Holy Spirit to go to heaven, but I'm sure if you didn't it would make it that much harder.
2007-09-17 00:52:23 · answer #7 · answered by urbanologie 1 · 2⤊ 3⤋
1John 5:7 was added later indeed, NIV and other versions have corrected that error. It goes to show to what lengths religious fanatics will go to be right. The whole bible is one massive corruption, the whole thing is the greatest scam in history, filled with lies and deceptions.
2007-09-17 00:51:45 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 4⤊ 3⤋
Some Christians see a Heretic around every corner. It gives them something to do and makes them feel good.
2007-09-17 00:43:04 · answer #9 · answered by fatsausage 7 · 3⤊ 4⤋
Because the Trinity is a core belief of the Christian faith, as shown in all the major Christian creeds, and denial of a core belief of the faith is heresy. Pretty straightforward.
2007-09-17 00:53:42 · answer #10 · answered by barbara m 3 · 3⤊ 4⤋