I need help on this hand...? (Very fundamental..)?

Question

1/2. Guy with 200 stack raises in ep to 7, I call in MP with 250 with JsTs, one of the blinds also calls.

Flop comes Td 7d 6s. He bets out 18. If you reraise to around 54-60 you will find out exactly where you're at... However, the problem is .. all worse hands fold (and wont possibly double barrel bluff on the turn) and all better hands call (maybe q10 folds).

So... do you reraise or call and evaluate on the turn with position against the open raiser?

James R... are you reccomending a r/r? If so heres the problem. Lets say i call. The pot would be around 60. I am showing weakness so the oppenent could easily have AK or 99 or A8 and fire again if a blank comes. We of course want this. Lets say he bets 40. So now if we call this we used around 60 chips.


If we reraise to 54 , we dont get AK to bluff again, 99 might call, and A8 will fold. So basically you lose around the same amount of chips, but you lose value from the hands that you beat. Agree or disagree?

Just dont know who deserves BA.. i think ima let this one be voted out

Answer 1

I'm assuming this is online, so I'd raise. j-10 is pretty good in that scenario, and if the guy in the early position has a-k, possibly diamond suit, you can get him out of the pot. If he reraises, however, be careful of an overpair in the pocket. I would never call just to find out where I stand on the turn. With a mid-level pair like that, it's better to just take the pot on the flop.

Answer 2

I dont pick either of your choices.

What are you even thinking about here man? I am way aggressive and even I am folding right here. Someone in early position raises to $7 preflop and you just call doesnt make sense from the start. Why are you just calling. Not that you have a hand worth raising with, but I'm not entering that pot without a raise. Your play on this hand if you wanted to find out how strong this guys hand was - was pre flop. A call is a sign of weakness to me. Now, I cant say I never did it in tournament play, but not in cash games. When you did just call with the JsTs - you were hoping for a few things - flopping a straight - flopping a flush - flopping two pair - flopping a flush draw ( 4 to the flush on the flop) - flopping trips or a boat - flopping an open ended straight draw ( I dont even like this one).
Notice how top pair crap kicker didnt make my list.

You have $7 in the pot - LET IT GO MAN ! It is a sickness that we have that we cant give that $7 up when we have a pair. This guy is representing AA KK QQ or even 77 66
TT AT KT QT. Even if he were to be playing loose - he could have 8d9d (or even off suit)and already flopped the straight looking for his straight flush Think of all the hands that have you beat all together. He raised and you dont think he has one of them. He doesnt really want anyone to chase the diamond flush draw - but should they do it - they are going to pay $18.

FOLD FOLD FOLD FOLD

Answer 3

While I like James' response here, I'd have to say just call and see where you're at on the turn. If, as James says, you are to fold if he reraises your flop raise then why raise? You're going to end up in the same dilemma and it's cost you another 54-60. 18 is a lot cheaper and lets you see another card, giving you more information and makes your probable turn fold a lot easier. He's likely to bet the turn regardless of what hits so you're either looking to improve or get out. Call.
UPDATE
So I've really been working this over trying to find a good reason to reraise. This is one of those situations where your descriptions of opp's styles would really come in handy. Is a LAG likely to fold AK to a big reraise here? Maybe but no guarantee. Is it someone likely to make the initial preflop bet with A10s? K10s? You see the problem here. Basically your hand isn't very strong--top pair with a decent but really pretty flimsy kicker.
While you're likely to get at least one of the players out, the only hands likely to call your reraise are ones that beat you or have the draw you can't afford them to take (and I acknowledge they'd have to be maniacs to call a bet that large with a draw.) Even if a reraise/fold/call gets you a check on the turn you'll be stuck with bad options: A check and a not-very-good river situation where you're basically back to square one or a bet that may very well be check/raised forcing you to give it up.
Your only real hope with a bet here is to get them both out and in this scenario that sounds like a craps shoot. I really don't see any good options here except calling or folding.
Here's my honest opinion at this point and looking over all of your questions: It seems there are many situations where you are very eager to take down pots that you're willing to risk an awful lot for and without particularly outstanding hands. Remember, it's not about winning lots of pots, it's the pots you do win.

Answer 4

Aloha,
I agree with James for the most part. I do believe you need to raise the flop bet.
First, it will give you information that just calling will not.
Second, by raising you may win it right here. Fold equity for the raise.
Third, if called by the EP guy after your raise, there is a good chance he will check the turn, hoping you bet again. You can check here and see a free card. The raise essentially allowed you to see the whole 5 card board. And possibly draw out on him if he does have an overpair.

Answer 5

imo, just calling here would be a really bad play, not because of the possibilities of the bettor, but because of the third player in the pot, the blind...if we just call and then he calls also, what will we do on the turn? with all the draws out there we don't want to play a three-way pot, we either want to get the third player out of the way or get out of the way ourselves...it's read dependent, if the villain is tight i would have to consider folding right here, but if he could make this bet simply as a c-bet then i'd raise it, but again calling is out of the question

as for size of a possible raise, i'd make it around $60 more, a really big raise, but again we need not only to define our hand but also put maximum pressure on the bettor and the third player...by making a strong raise here we could convince the bettor to throw away an overpair or a hand like A-10, and if he has diamonds we need to charge the maximum

Answer 6

You've got top pair with a decent kicker. I think your opponent has a flush draw. I would re-raise him to see if I can blow him off the his hand before 4th street pops up.

If my opponent calls and another diamond comes on the turn and he bets then I fold. He's hit his flush or established a good bluff. I will try to check the hand down. If he bets I'm folding.

My strategy would change if a spade comes up. Now I've got top pair with a flush draw. I will call his bet or check after he checks to see the river. If a diamond comes on the rvr I make a small bet . If a diamond comes up, I check or fold.

If my opponent has an over pair or two over cards, I don't think my strategy will change much. I can't believe he would make bets with two over cards when he didn't hit anything on the flop. If he's got an over pair then I still need a flush (or another J) to beat him.

Answer 7

A couple things:

PRE-FLOP

1. The opponent in EP bets 3 1/2 times the BB. Should tell you he has a pair or over cards.
2. You called. Good so far.

FLOP

1. The opponent in EP fires out an $18 bet. Roughly a pot sized bet. You can put him on either Jacks or higher, or perhaps a KJ suited or AJ suited, a flush draw or straight draw or both.

2. The problem I see is you have a 10 with a Jack kicker. He might have either a KJ, or AJ suited.

3. You have 2-1 pot odds so you should call or perhaps make a re-raise. If he calls you definitely should slow down. If he re-raises your bet FOLD! If he calls your bet on the flop and you don't improve your hand, then fold on the turn if he fires out another bet.

That's just my opinion having been in similiar hands. :-)

Answer 8

I think your mistake was pre-flop. You got involved against a raiser in early position. I would need a damn good hand to raise in early position, so I assume he's got something unless he is extremely loose. Even if he is loose, you're in middle position with at least four people to act behind you. So you have a raiser and four unknowns, I think TJ is pretty weak in that case. I am more of a tournament player, so maybe my bias is showing, but that just seems like a play that will bleed off your money in the long run.

Answer 9

You made a voluntary decision to enter a raised pot. You got a good flop for your hand. You need to find out if your hand is good on the flop. Raise and figure it out.

Answer 10

All I will add to the discussion is....

Why did you get in this pot?

Fold if this player is a tight player.

Reraise if he's a loose player.