Good Christians know & live in Spirit & in Truth; while good non-Christians know & live in Spirit only ?

Question

The Paradise Trinity is the Three Presons of

GOD the Universal Father
GOD the Eternal Son
GOD the Infinite Spirit

If you do not believe in the Trinity, or are a non-Christian, please do not answer; thank you. This is for Trinity believing Christians only in Spirit and in Truth.

Here in our space-time universe, our Holy Spirit is SPIRIT and our Sovereign Creator Jesus Christ (aka Jesus Christ Michael) is Father-Son Combined One TRUTH

When we were world-travelers, [I worked for NASA in Madagascar (Malagasy Republic) and we traveled much] my wife and I noticed that other humans of non-Christian religious faiths had just as much of the displayed fruits of the Spirit as most average Christians in the USA do. This is living in SPIRIT; but they then did not know the TRUTH of God the Father and God the Son as One TRUTH; even though they did (unknowningly then) live in, or certainly under, TRUTH.

Agree? Disagree? Comments?

"Persons" (plural) is a proper English word. Also the word "persons" is found about SIXTY times in the Bible. See in "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible" "God is no respecter of persons." is just one example.

Hi Sister Angelpurplewings,

IF the Holy Spirit were to leave any human or any animal, they would instantly be DEAD ! The Holy Spirit always has pervaded and maintained all creatures hereas our Divine Activator or all life. HE the Father-Son Spirit of Truth -- our Jesus Christ -- stands patiently at the doors of our souls and ONLY comes in when sincerely invited ! Now you know why Jesus-loving Christians worship God in Spirit and in Truth ! Note that this New Teacher, our Spirit of Truth of God and Jesus together as One Father-Son Spirit, was not here with humans until May 18, AD30 on Pentecost ! and now forevermore with us ! That makes our Savior JESUS, since then, the NEW and LIVING WAY to the Father-Infinite I AM ! Amen !

Answer 1

Sorry i haven't respected your suggestion.
I am a muslim but i am a student of Comperative religion.
I had read the bible but i found not a single verse where Jesus Himself claimed divinity.

If you can produce a single verse where Jesus himself claimed divinity, I am ready to accept your belief.
In which darkness you are. Open your eyes trinity or Divinity are not logical concepts

I know what your answer will be, I think I should give you responce before your answer

you will say

Jesus said: "I and the Father are one" (Jn.10:30), therefore, is not Jesus the same, or, "co-equal" in status with his Father?
Answer
In Greek, `heis' means `one' numerically (masc.) `hen' means `one' in unity or essence (neut.) Here the word used by John is `hen' and not `heis'. The marginal notes in New American Standard Bible (NASB) reads; one - (Lit.neuter) a unity, or, one essence.
If one wishes to argue that the word `hen' supports their claim for Jesus being "co-equal" in status with his Father, please invite his/her attention to the following verse:
Jesus said: "And the glory which Thou hast given me, I have given to them (disciples); that they may be one, just as we are one." (John 17:22).
If he/she was to consider/regard/believe the Father and Jesus Christ to be "one" meaning "co-equal" in status on the basis of John 10:30, then that person should also be prepared to consider/regard/believe "them" - the disciples of Jesus, to be "co-equal" in status with the Father and Jesus ("just as we are one") in John 17:22. I have yet to find a person that would be prepared to make the disciples (students) "co-equal" in status with the Father or Jesus.
The unity and accord was of the authorized divine message that originated from the Father, received by Jesus and finally passed on to the disciples. Jesus admitted having accomplished the work which the Father had given him to do. (Jn.17:4)
Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent)
Jesus said: "I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I." (Jn.14:28). This verse unequivocally refutes the claim by any one for Jesus being "co-equal" in status with his Father.
I Am the Way
Question
Jesus said: "I am the way, ...no one comes to the Father, but through me." (Jn.14:6), therefore, is not the Salvation through Jesus, ALONE?
Answer
Before Jesus spoke these words, he said; "In my Father's house are many mansions (dwelling places); if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a mansion (a dwelling place) for you." (John 14:2).
The above explicit statement confirms that Jesus was going to prepare "a" mansion and not "all" the mansions in "my Father's house". Obviously, the prophets that came before him and the one to come after, were to prepare the other mansions for their respective followers. The prophet that came after Jesus had evidently shown the current "way" to a modern mansion in the kingdom of heaven. Besides; the verse clearly states; Jesus was the "WAY" to a mansion. It is a folly to believe that Jesus (or any prophet) was the "DESTINATION".
Jesus said; "I am the door" to find the pasture. (Jn.10:9). A sheep that walks through the "door" will find the pasture. A sheep that circles around the "door" will never find the pasture. One who crosses over the "way" will reach the mansion. Anyone that stops on the "way" and believes the "way" to be the end of his/her journey, will be out in the open without any shelter and a roof.
Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent)
Jesus said; "Not every one that says to me; `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father, who is in heaven." (Mt.7:21).
He Who Has Seen Me Has Seen the Father
Question
Jesus said:"He who has seen me has seen the Father" (Jn.14:9), does this not prove that Jesus Christ and his Father were one and the same?
Answer
One day to prove a point and settle an argument, Jesus picked up a child and said to his disciples; "Whoever receives this child in my name receives me; and whoever receives me receives Him who sent me;" (Luke 9:48).
Jesus said; "He who believes in me does not believe in me, but in Him who sent me." (John 12:44) "He who hates me hates my Father also. ...but now they have both seen and hated me and my Father as well." (John 15:23-24)
"And this is eternal life, that they may know Thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom Thou hast sent." (John 17:3).
The call of sincerity demands that if believing in the Truth is the honest intention then one could only pass an ethical judgement after reflecting upon all the relevant texts. John 17:3 (quoted above), if read with the following verse clears the air.
Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent)
Jesus said; "Truly, truly, I say to you, a slave is not greater than his master; neither is the one who is sent greater than the one who sent him." (John 13:16). During his ministry, Jesus repeatedly said he was sent by his Father.
Jesus the Begotten Son?
Question
The Bible; "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life." (John 3:16); should you not believe in Jesus to have eternal life?
Answer
Of course, we believe in Jesus for what he was and we do not believe in what he was not. We Muslims believe Jesus was a Messiah; "Spirit from God"; "Word of God"; the righteous Prophet as well as Messenger of God and the son of Virgin Mary. But, we do not believe Jesus was "the begotten son of God." The truth of the matter is apostle John never ever wrote; Jesus was "the begotten" son of God. Please obtain a copy of the `Gideon Bible' from a Hotel or Motel near you. It is distributed free since 1899, all over the world, by The Gideon Society. In the beginning of this famous Bible, John 3:16 is translated in 26 popular world languages. You may be amazed to discover that in the English translation, the editors have used the traditionally accepted term "His only begotten son." Whereas, in several other languages the editors have used the term "His unique son" or "His one of a kind son." In 1992, when I discovered this textual variations, I wrote letters to various universities in North America requesting them to confirm the original Greek term used by John. Below is a copy of the response received from The George Washington University:-
John 3:16 and John 1:18 each have the word `monogenes' in Greek. This word ordinarily means "of a single kind". As a result, "unique" is a good translation. The reason you sometimes find a translation that renders the word as "only begotten" has to do with an ancient heresy within the church. In response to the Arian claim that Jesus was made but not begotten, Jerome (4th century) translated the Greek term `monogenes' into Latin as `unigenitus' ("only begotten"). Paul B. Duff, 22 April, 1992. Professor Duff's response was based upon `Anchor Bible', volume 29, page 13-14. The Greek term for "begotten" is `gennao' as found in Mt.1:2, which John did not use.
Hot Tip: (precise and pertinent)
Jesus said to Mary; "...go to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father..." (John 20:17). This verse demonstrates that the usage of term `Father' was purely metaphorical. As for Jesus being a "unique son", he, unlike us, was created without a physical Father.
Being Born Again
Question
Jesus said: "Truly, truly. I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3); I am a "born again" Christian, are you a "born again" Muslim?
Answer
The truth of the matter is apostle John did not use the phrase "born again". The Greek text reveals, the phrase used by John is "born from above". The Greek word used by John is `anothen' (`ano' + `then'). `ano' means `above' and the suffix `then' denotes `from'.
Hence, what Jesus said was "unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God." And, that sounds logical. Since none of the living creature is "born from above", no one can see the kingdom heaven during his life time. The concept of being "born again" to see the kingdom of heaven is an innovation to instill the concept of Baptism.
The same word `anothen' appears in the same Gospel and in the same chapter in verse 31. Here the editors have translated the word as "from above" and not "again". This further supports the logic of Jesus having said; "born from above".
To enter the Kingdom of Heaven one has to keep the Commandments. God's distinguished Command known as the `Covenant of Circumcision' (physically, "in the flesh of your foreskin") was an everlasting Covenant (Compact,Treaty) between God and man. See Genesis 17:10-14.
Can an everlasting Treaty be abrogated or revoked unilaterally? Did Jesus abrogate it? No. Jesus was circumcised in the flesh (Luke 2:21). We, Muslim males, are circumcised. Are the male Christians circumcised in the "flesh of their foreskins"? If not, please read the following verse:-
Hot Tip:
Jesus said; "Whoever then annuls (discards) one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." (Matt. 5:19).
The Doctrine of Trinity
Question
Jesus said; "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit," (Matthew 28:19); does this not prove that the `Doctrine of Trinity' and its present day formula was communicated and promulgated by Jesus Christ himself?
Answer
With all due respect, we tend to disagree in view of the following compelling evidences:-
1. `Peake's Commentary on the Bible' published since 1919, is universally welcomed and considered to be the standard reference book for the students of the Bible. Commenting on the above verse it records; "This mission is described in the language of the church and most commentators doubt that the trinitarian formula was original at this point in Mt.'s Gospel, since the NT elsewhere does not know of such a formula and describes baptism as being performed in the name of the Lord Jesus (e.g. Ac. 2:38, 8:16, etc.)."
2. Tom Harpur, author of several bestsellers and a former professor of New Testament, writes in his book `For Christ's Sake'; "All but the most conservative of scholars agree that at least the latter part of this command was inserted later. The formula occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, and we know from the only evidence available (the rest of the New Testament) that the earliest Church did not baptise people using these words - baptism was "into" or "in" the name of Jesus alone."
3. The above command (authentic or otherwise) does not indicate that the three names mentioned in the formula are or were, "co- equal" in their status, as well as, were "co-eternal" in the time frame, to conform with the acknowledged `Doctrine of Trinity'.
4. If the Father and His Son were both in "existence" from the Day One, and no one was, a micro second before or after, and, no one was "greater or lesser" in status, than why is one called the Father and the other His begotten Son?
5. Did the act of "Begetting" take place? If YES, where was the "Begotten Son" before the act? If NO, why call him the "Begotten Son"?
Hot Tip:
"And Peter said to them, `Repent, and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins;...'" (Acts 2:38). It is most unlikely that apostle Peter would have disobeyed the specific command of Jesus Christ for baptising in the three names and baptized them in the name of Jesus Christ, alone.
More on the Trinity Doctrine
Question
Apostle John in his first Epistle, chapter 5 and verse 7 wrote: "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one."; is this not a fair testimony to acknowledge the `Doctrine of Trinity'?
Answer
1. The text quoted does appear in the Kings James Version but has been omitted by most of the editors of the recent versions e.g. Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Bible, New English Bible, Phillips Modern English Bible, because the quoted text does not appear in the older Greek manuscripts.
2. Renowned historian Edward Gibbon calls the addition a "Pious Fraud" in his famous history book `Decline and Fall of Roman Empire'.
3. Peakes commentary on the subject reads; "The famous interpolation after "three witnesses" is not printed even in RSVn, and rightly. It cites the heavenly testimony of the Father, the logos, and the Holy Spirit, but is never used in the early trinitarian controversies. No respectable Greek MS contains it. Appearing first in a late 4th-cent. Latin text, it entered the Vulgate and finally the NT of Erasmus."
Hot Tip:
Notwithstanding the above rejections, the verse that follows the quoted text reads in KJV; "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood; and these three agree in one." (1John5:8). Are these three witnesses "co-equal"? Can blood be substituted with water? Can water be regarded as the same in any respect with the Spirit? Just as the spirit, the blood and the water are three separate entities, so are the first three witnesses, namely; the Father, the Son (Word, Logos) and the Holy Spirit (Ghost).
Salvation Only in Being a Follower of Christ?
Question
Jesus said:"He who believes in the son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (John 3:36); are you not under the wrath of God for not being a follower of Christ - a Christian, by belief?
Answer
It is an interesting question. In fact, we Muslims should be asking the question to you the followers of Christ. Do the vast majority of Christians truthfully believe Christ for what he said he was, and, truly understand his commands and obey them?
We believe, most of the followers who claim to be Christians do not even understand the implications of calling their Leader or Lord; "Christ". (The readers will understand what I mean by the last sentence, once they go through the rest of the text).
Here is the answer to your question. The above verse has two parts. `Belief' and `Obedience'. On the subject of Belief in Christ, Jesus asked his disciples; "But who do you say that I am? And Peter answered and said, "The Christ of God." (Luke 9:20). Peter did not say God or a god. We Muslims truly believe Jesus was "The Christ (al-Masih) of God". The expression "The Christ of God" literally means; "The one that was anointed by God himself". Please go back in time and think. God performed the ceremony of anointing (physically or spiritually) and for that reason, Jesus became "The Christ of God". Now may I please ask you a simple question. Who is greater and exalted; the one who anointed, or, the one who got anointed? Since God anointed Jesus, God is the greater and exalted between the two, which we Muslims, do truly believe. But surprisingly, the followers who say Jesus is "Christ", don't.
Hot Tip:
"...Thy holy Servant Jesus, whom Thou didst anoint,..." (Acts 4:27 - New American Standard Bible). This leaves no room for doubt that Jesus was a `Servant of God'. Besides, there are other verses which declare Jesus; God's Servant.
Now let us go to the second part of the quoted verse; "obeying the Christ". Please read the following verse and ask yourself a question; have I obeyed?
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word, and believes Him who sent me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgement, but has passed out of death into life." John 5:24 Have I believed and placed my trust basically, fundamentally and predominately in Him or in Jesus?
Hot Tip:
Jesus said; "But I do not seek my glory; there is One who seeks and judges." John 8:51. Who is this "One", who is not Jesus? Have you basically, essentially and fundamentally glorified the "One" or Jesus? Please remember, the "One" will be the Judge on the Day of Judgement and not Jesus. If you disbelieve or disobey the above word of Jesus please read the verse quoted by you and then think about the "wrath of God".
Did All Things Come Into Being Through Jesus?
Question
In the Book of Genesis 1:26, we read; "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness..."; does not the use of terms "us" and "our" prove that the God which created man was not a singular entity, furthermore, does it not support the Johnannine concept (John 1:3); all things came into being through Jesus?
Answer
1. Below is an extract from a commentary for the above verse, written by the editors of King James Version (The Hebrew-Greek Key Study Bible, 6th edition): "The Hebrew word for God is `Elohim' (430), a plural noun. In Genesis 1:1, it is used in grammatical agreement with a singular verb `bara' (1254), created. When plural pronouns are used, "Let us make man in our image after our likeness," does it denote a plural of number or the concept of excellence or majesty which may be indicated in such a way in Hebrew? Could God be speaking to angels, the earth, or nature thus denoting Himself in relation to one of these? Or is this a germinal hint of a distinction in the divine personality? One cannot be certain."
Having written "One cannot be certain", the editors try to advocate the theory of Jesus, as the "essential (internal) unity of Godhead."
2. The response to your question, as well as, to the commentators remark; "One cannot be certain", lies not very far, but in the next verse (Genesis 1:27), which reads; "And God created man in His own image,..." This statement tells us that the actual act of creation when performed, was performed by "Him" and in "His" image and not by "Us" in "Our" image.
Hot Tip:
As a closing conclusive argument, here is a statement of truth from Jesus himself; "And he (Jesus) answered and said unto them, `Have you not read, that He which made them at the beginning made them male and female." (Matthew 19:4). This statement by Jesus also negates the so called Johnannine concept put forward by you (NOT by apostle John).

Answer 2

I suppose a narrow view will get us narrow results and a few will be saved. On the other hand, God wishes "all to be saved." If two people have rigid views. they can never come together. A young Christan repeats the same scriptures, over and over, lest he forget, and is very rigid. That is necessary for him. When he becomes mature, he doesn't think, 'what I will say', but the Spirit remembers. He doesn't have to be unreasonable or unreasoning, because the Spirit helps him reason. If he can't reason and not be contentious, then he knows he is not "in the Spirit", so he has to get back in the Spirit and even be learning something from his pupil. Don't we learn a lot in the world? We don't see Him somewhere? Where is he not? The left, animal brain, doesn't see Him. If we think again, with the right brain, we see that, yes, he is actually here too. So there you go. Two eyes to see deeper and two hemispheres, of the brain, to see deeper. He is both not there, in a way, and there too? An optical illusion. This is a mental illusion. He is there. It may be just that the Devil is also. If we can't handle it, we don't preach, but should teach or something else, maybe. Let the dog catchers catch the mad dogs, until we get good at it "WITH deep respect" and "love". "Let all your affairs take place with love." Of "Faith, hope and Love, the greatest of these is Love." Judging and condeming people is not love. Jesus said, "I came not into the world to judge, but to save." Were is our mind at when we are working? When we are in love, we see evil, we just don't stop being in love to judge. We stay in love and on the subject. It can get complicated, but in love the Spirit can guide if we let it. There are two ideas in our head. We need to pick the loving kind one to say, The one from the Spirit. It's just hard to decide which one it is, sometimes. It's bound to be the more loving one. Don't you find it that way? Or is it the judging condeming one?

I had the same experience here in the USA with a Christian. I had the word. They had the Spirit. Their prayers were answered. Mine were not. When I took a page from their book, by prayers worked. I found out my word was my word and found the word. Isn't the Spirit the word? Life is too complicated for me to figure out, but easy for the Spirit to understand the word and the world. If the Spirit of Truth couldn't come until Jesus left, isn't He maybe the Spirit of Truth?

We know the scriptures. Maybe the Spirit tells us what scripture and when. Somewhat similar and yet different is the two trees. God said they where both good as everything He made was very good. So listening to God and the Spirit, the Spirit would say what, the tree of life and when, first.

Who says Jesus can't lead people, just because they don't have a word for the Spirit leading them. You find the experience before the words, sometimes. You can fly without formally knowing the laws of physics or the names for gravity. You just know, better than believing or thinking. That's confession totally, with the heart soul and mind without the words. Jesus is the word, not the word is Jesus and yet that also, maybe. It's a mental illusion and both are true. Or not, this is wearing me out. lol

Answer 3

Ok, Yes there is the Trinity. God the Father,God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And God can use ANYONE to do His work. Even those whom have not yet found the Truth. It is our job as born again Christians to speak out about the Truth and show people the Truth through our actions.
God Bless

Answer 4

Disagree.

Your symbolism is a bit obscure. Psychologically your 'Father/Son as One Truth' sort of works, because internal transformation requires that unity state and ego transcendence. But, Jesus the Sovereign Creator is a bit off the wall. If, however, you MEAN 'Christ, the sovereign creator/cause' (as in internal rebirth of Christ Self), I can agree with that description of how authentic being relates to physical causation.

But, Holy Spirit means Infinite Spirit??? Are we all interconnected in this infinite field of reality? Certainly. But, what comfort or relevance is 'infinity'? None. Holy, i.e. pure love has more importance that an infinite anything. What you wholly love is why you are here. Nothing else can comfort you until the resurrection of authentic being allows Reality (God the Father) to manifest it in experience. This is the intersection of psychology and physics. Nothing more.

Most Christians would NOT go along with your interpretation, which I think you know. Few (if any today) have any clue as to what 'One or unity' entails, but you seem certain that they do and that this is what sets Christianity apart. I have yet to encounter it and I've been around the block many times.

Fruits of the Spirit? You probably refer to their superficial humanity, kindness, love? Fruits are physical, i.e. related to causality. If this is what you are referencing, then their (perceived by you) limited reality is more related to culture, circumstance and karma - as is OURS as well.

Answer 5

The Father is Adam - Art in heaven as he is on earth peace to him
The Lord is one there is no compairison the creator cannot be created. Plain and simple as that.
The Holy Spirit was given to a man named Saul and given to many before but you don't call them God or Son of God may he forgive but I highly doubt it.

The rest is common sense through knowledge and wisdom if you could see and granted such vision then you would know long ago what you just typed when into the big book of Allah. There will be judgement upon those who call for deities that are not real. Jesus can't here a thing anyone said, he is in heaven resting and there is barrier between you and them. Peace to them all inshAllah amin.
Jesus will come and say. I hurd you never! The Lord is the only one that can do that.

Answer 6

The Holy Spirit lives within each one of us,we have no control of that. Weather or not we call upon him and rely on his power is a matter of faith. John 14:15-17 " If you love me,you will obey my commands and I will ask the Father and he will give you another councilor to be with you forever; the Spirit of Truth [The Holy Spirit]. The world cannot accept him for they neither see him or know him but you know him for he lives with you and will be in you." Jesus spoke this truth that Christians of good faith may rely on the Holy Spirit for spiritual strength.

Answer 7

May the Holy Name of YHWH be Blessed Forever!

I have one major problem with your whole opening paragraph. You made the claim that " good Christians know and live in spirit &truth"An attorney would say, objection, the statement claims something that the facts are not in evidence. How can you claim to live in "truth" when Christian scholars agree that there are up to 400,000 mistakes in the very book that you base your beliefs in, The New Testament.

Take G-d out of the religiouse box that you have put Him in and let Him be G-d.

FranB

Answer 8

I am a Born again, Bible believing, Trinitarian. I will answer more fully after you explain why you call Jesus Christ, Michael.

Answer 9

There is no such as three persons . The plural of person is people . The preamble does not say " we the persons of the United States " . Linclon did not say " government of the persons , for the persons , by the persons " .
Just what is the church trying to hide by using what they know is improper English ?
There's an old saying that when a person throws the word "truth" around too much , don't believe a word he says .
Also , you can not limit who can and who can't answer or comment on your "question " .
My comment - - - One person can't be three people , three people can't be one person .

Answer 10

The truth is the Word which Knowledge of will set you free. Amen Star it

Answer 11

Brother Dave, I got lost somewhere above, but I am with our Holy Spirit.