Is the Holy Spirit a person of the Trinity, or an impersonal force?

Question

The Holy Spirit
With the ascension of Christ we have the arrival of the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; Acts 2) who ministers to the Church through the mediation of Christ (1 Tim. 2:5) and the Scriptures.
He is fully God; He is not a force. He is the third person of the Trinity.
He has a will - 1 Cor. 2:11
He speaks - Acts 13:2
He loves - Rom. 15:30
He can be grieved - Eph. 4:30
He convicts of sin - John 16:8
He creates - Gen. 1:2; Job 33:4
He gives gifts - 1 Cor. 12:8
He Intercedes - Rom. 8:26
He teaches - John 14:26
He testifies of Jesus - John 15:26
He baptizes - 1 Cor. 12:13
He guides - John 16:13
He encourages - Acts 9:31
He empowers - Micah 3:8
He gives joy - Rom. 14:17
He comforts - John 14:16-26
The Holy Spirit indwells the believer (Rom. 8:11) and continues to work in him to bring about sanctification (Rom. 15:16).
The Holy Spirit illuminates the mind of the believer (1 Cor. 2:12,13) and reveals to Him the things of God (1 Cor. 2:10,13; 1 John 2:27).

The words translated "Holy Spirit" convey the concept of power. In the original Greek the phrase for "Holy Spirit" is hagios pneuma, meaning literally "holy wind." Pneuma can also mean breath, as in "the breath [pneuma] of life" (Revelation 11:11; compare Genesis 7:15). As breath is essential for physical life, so is God's Spirit essential for eternal life. And, just as wind is an invisible but powerful force in our physical environment, so the Holy Spirit is an invisible, powerful force in our spiritual development

Go ahead and quote them for me, Stevie P.

Stevie P. you can change your name, it doesn't change your character. You never answer the questions, you just pop up, make asinine comments, and dissappear. YOUR time might be better spent doing something else, hmmmm?

PaulS: Let's carry your argument out to it's logical conclusion. God's word himself tells us he is spirit, not flesh and blood, therefore having no gender. Yet God is continually described in the personifying masculine terms 'he', and 'him'. Also warrior, father, deliverer, etc... Your argument applied to God the father would turn him also into an impersonal "electric" force. Is that where you want to go?

Little Lamb, the Holy Spirit didn't just appear in the New Testament. However, it was only after Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection that the Spirit could indwell us. Before Christ, sin separated us from God. After Christ, we can have fellowship with God. In the way that God's shekinah glory showed the israelites where to go in the desert, so now does the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer. That indwelling of the Spirit is what helps to lead, guide, and direct us. The Spirit convicts us of sin, and prays for us when we don't know what to pray. It is God's Holy Spirit that currently restrains the anti-christ from rising to power. It is God's Holy Spirit that is our "helper" from God.

EDIT: I find it odd that the JW's so vehemently oppose the trinity, given their poly-theistic interpretation of John 1:1. NWT says "the word was a god."
How many gods are there?

TeeM: all you did was re-post much of the info I did, and give it a different twist.
Didn't you notice that?

Bambi: Hasn't God the father appeared in different forms also?? How in the world does that help your argument??

Answer 1

The fact that the Holy Spirit is God is clearly seen in many Scriptures including Acts 5:3-4. In this verse Peter confronts Ananias as to why he had lied to the Holy Spirit and tells him that he had “not lied to men but to God.” It is a clear declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. We can also know that the Holy Spirit is God because He possesses the attributes or characteristics of God. For example, the fact that the Holy Spirit is omnipresent is seen in Psalm 139:7-8, “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there.” Then in 1 Corinthians 2:10, we see the characteristic of omniscience in the Holy Spirit. “But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God.”

Answer 2

Not a Person

ARE there not, however, Bible verses that speak of the holy spirit in personal terms? Yes, but note what Catholic theologian Edmund Fortman says about this in The Triune God: “Although this spirit is often described in personal terms, it seems quite clear that the sacred writers [of the Hebrew Scriptures] never conceived or presented this spirit as a distinct person.”

In the Scriptures it is not unusual for something to be personified. Wisdom is said to have children. (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are called kings. (Romans 5:14, 21) At Genesis 4:7 The New English Bible (NE) says: “Sin is a demon crouching at the door,” personifying sin as a wicked spirit crouching at Cain’s door. But, of course, sin is not a spirit person; nor does personifying the holy spirit make it a spirit person.

Similarly, at 1 John 5:6-8 (NE) not only the spirit but also “the water, and the blood” are said to be “witnesses.” But water and blood are obviously not persons, and neither is the holy spirit a person.

In harmony with this is the Bible’s general usage of “holy spirit” in an impersonal way, such as paralleling it with water and fire. (Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8) People are urged to become filled with holy spirit instead of with wine. (Ephesians 5:18) They are spoken of as being filled with holy spirit in the same way they are filled with such qualities as wisdom, faith, and joy. (Acts 6:3; 11:24; 13:52) And at 2 Corinthians 6:6 holy spirit is included among a number of qualities. Such expressions would not be so common if the holy spirit were actually a person.

Then, too, while some Bible texts say that the spirit speaks, other texts show that this was actually done through humans or angels. (Matthew 10:19, 20; Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Hebrews 2:2) The action of the spirit in such instances is like that of radio waves transmitting messages from one person to another far away.

At Matthew 28:19 reference is made to “the name . . . of the holy spirit.” But the word “name” does not always mean a personal name, either in Greek or in English. When we say “in the name of the law,” we are not referring to a person. We mean that which the law stands for, its authority. Robertson’s Word Pictures in the New Testament says: “The use of name (onoma) here is a common one in the Septuagint and the papyri for power or authority.” So baptism ‘in the name of the holy spirit’ recognizes the authority of the spirit, that it is from God and functions by divine will.

The “Helper”

JESUS spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper,” and he said it would teach, guide, and speak. (John 14:16, 26; 16:13) The Greek word he used for helper (pa·ra´kle·tos) is in the masculine gender. So when Jesus referred to what the helper would do, he used masculine personal pronouns. (John 16:7, 8) On the other hand, when the neuter Greek word for spirit (pneu´ma) is used, the neuter pronoun “it” is properly employed.

Most Trinitarian translators hide this fact, as the Catholic New American Bible admits regarding John 14:17: “The Greek word for ‘Spirit’ is neuter, and while we use personal pronouns in English (‘he,’ ‘his,’ ‘him’), most Greek MSS [manuscripts] employ ‘it.’”

So when the Bible uses masculine personal pronouns in connection with pa·ra´kle·tos at John 16:7, 8, it is conforming to rules of grammar, not expressing a doctrine.

Answer 3

The holy spirit is a force not a person.
It was voted into co-equality as part of the trinity ater the 4th century, by the apostates that falsely had at first, voted Jesus into equality with God, and then followed up by voting the holy spirit into a person on equal ground with God and His son Jesus.
Thus, by a winding twisting road, the doctrine of the trinity,(which had already existed in the religion of the pagan Babylonians) became a "christian" teaching.
It was since proven false at the turn of the century by many Bible scholars including the Late Rev. Alexander Hislop, and the Rev. Charles Taze Russel, among others.

Answer 4

1 Cor 2:11 shows that God is the originator or 'owner' of the spirit.

It reads 'spirit of God' and not 'God the Spirit'.

Next, spirit in greek is neutered therefore the correct pronoun in you references should read.

It has a will,
It speaks,
It loves,
It can be grieved.

etc.

Of course everyone knows It can really do any of the things 'you' say it does.

As God's breath, as God's wind, as God's spirit, the spirit has no personality, other than to mimic it's source.

Let’s start at the beginning, the word we translate as spirit, It literally means breath or wind.

At Gen 1:2 which most bibles say “ the (S)spirit* of God” was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters. The NRSV says in the footnote “the wind of God” * “And . . . active force (spirit).” Heb., weru´ach. Besides being translated “spirit,” ru´ach is also translated “wind” and by other words that denote an invisible active force.”

This agrees with Psalm 33:6 that says: “By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, and by the spirit (breath, KJV) of his mouth all their army.”

So the first reference of “Holy Spirit” in the bible denotes wind and breath. So when we say the spirit of God, we are literally saying the breath of God, or the wind of God. Neither of these expressions means a person of God or a personage of God. Both expressions do denote ownership.

Ex. 15:8 “And by a breath* from your nostrils waters were heaped up; They stood still like a dam of floods; The surging waters were congealed in the heart of the sea.” *“And by a breath.” Heb., u•veru´ach; Gr., pneu´ma•tos.

Again we see that God’s spirit is ‘a breath’ that accomplishes not it’s own will, but God’s will.

We know that God created the heaven and earth, by means of His spirit. We don’t read in the bible that “The Holy Spirit created the earth”, we read God created the heavens and earth by means of his spirit.

Also please note these comparisons:

Matt12:28 “But if it is by means of God’s spirit that I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU.”

Luke 11:20 “But if it is by means of God’s finger I expel the demons, the kingdom of God has really overtaken YOU.”

Here God’s spirit is described as God’s finger. Again ownership of the spirit, it belongs to God, it’s part of God, but definitely not part of a Godhead.

Let’s jump forward to Jesus’ baptism. Here we have the voice of God, the holy spirit, in the form of a dove and Jesus.

Matt 3:16 “and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him.”

Here we learn two things about God’s spirit, besides ownership, 1st the form chosen is that a dove, not a human. Angels as spirit persons, Jehovah as a Spirit, and the resurrected Jesus who was raised as a spirit, are always depicted as a humans. (1 Cor 15:45 It is even so written: “The first man Adam became a living soul.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit) 2nd it is upon this occasion that Jesus becomes baptized with spirit. This is where Jesus becomes ‘The Christ’, the ‘Messiah’.

Just as Jesus was baptized with water, Jesus is baptized not with a person, but with an object, a breath, a wind, a force from God.

Let’s now briefly discuss some of the texts used to “prove” that the holy spirit is a person.

Jesus also referred to the holy spirit as a “helper” (Greek, pa•ra´kle•tos), and he said that this helper would “teach,” “bear witness,” “speak,” and ‘hear.’ (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) It is not unusual in the Scriptures for something to be personified. For example, wisdom is said to have “children.” (Luke 7:35) Sin and death are spoken of as being kings. (Rom. 5:14, 21) While some texts say that the spirit “spoke,” other passages make clear that this was done through angels or humans. (Acts 4:24, 25; 28:25; Matt. 10:19, 20; compare Acts 20:23 with 21:10, 11.) At 1 John 5:6-8, not only the spirit but also “the water and the blood” are said to ‘bear witness.’ So, none of the expressions found in these texts in themselves prove that the holy spirit is a person.

The Bible is said to bring comfort, said to be alive and exerts power (Rom 15:4; Heb 4:12) But we would never say the Bible is a person.

These are just a few scriptures that show that God’ holy spirit is not part of a Godhead, but it’s Jehovah’s active force.

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Answer 5

I didn't know the Holy Spirit came about only when Jesus risen. You are saying there was NO Holy Spirit before Jesus? I thought 3 was always together. Now you got me thinking. Where's the scripture?

Answer 6

Notice how Trinitarians add capital letters to the (H)oly (S)pirit, even though the original Greek didn't?

Can you explain how that holy spirit (who you call a person) can be ‘poured out’ upon humans and can ‘fill’ them as taught in the bible?

There are many places in the bible where it personifies certain things, and God's active force (or wind, as in Greek, or spirit) is no exception.

If you believe that the holy spirit is a person with feelings then you must also believe that:

-Sin is a person too:

Romans 5:21 (sin was a king)
"That as sin hath reigned unto death."

Romans 7:8-11 (sin can die, be resurrected, deceive and kill people)
"...For without the law sin was dead...sin revived, and I died...
For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me."

Wisdom is a person too:

Matthew 11:19 (Wisdom is a female and has children)
"...But wisdom is justified of her children."

Luke 7:35
"But wisdom is justified of all her children"




The list goes on.....So can we say that the holy spirit is a person just because it is personified?

The holy spirit is closely associated with its Source, God, one who goes contrary to God’s will ‘grieves his spirit.’

Saying that God's holy spirit is alive is like saying that electricity is alive.

To baptize someone in the "name" of the holy spirit does not imply the existence of a person. It might be illustrated with the English expression “in the name of the law.” No one familiar with the English language would conclude there from that the law is a person. The expression simply means ‘in recognition of what the law represents,’ its authority. Similarly, baptism ‘in the name of the spirit’ signifies a recognition of that spirit and its source and functions.

The context of the phrase ‘blasphemy against the spirit’ (Mt 12.31; Mt 12.28; Lk 11.20), shows that reference is being made to the power of God.






Greg M.- I see what you are getting at but...

God is a spirit, yes, just as much the flesh is a man. But the flesh isn't a man on it's own, just as much as the spirit OF God isn't a person on it's own.

God uses His spirit to accomplish things, much the same way that man uses his energy (or spirit/life-force) to accomplish things.

When the bible refers to the holy spirit doing anything, this is the "action" of God.

A Greek scholar (forgot his name) once put it this way:
"We say that the sun goes through the blinds and hits the wall. We don't mean that the sun actually goes through the blinds, but that the rays FROM the sun go through them."
Likewise, when the bible refers to the holy spirit doing anything, this is the "rays" of God (His action).

Answer 7

“Then He remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is He that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of His flock? where is He that put His holy Spirit within him?” (Isaiah 63:11).

There are several explicit references (and many other implicit references) to this third Person of the Godhead in the ancient Scriptures. One of these is in our text and in the preceding verses which also mention the second Person of the Godhead. “For He said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so He was their Savior. In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the angel of His presence saved them: in His love and in His pity He redeemed them; and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old. But they rebelled, and vexed His Holy Spirit: therefore He was turned to be their enemy, and He fought against them” (Isaiah 63:8–10).

It was possible to “vex the Holy Spirit” then, just as it is possible for a believer to “grieve . . . the Holy Spirit” today (Ephesians 4:30). Today, a Christian may also “quench . . . The Spirit” (I Thessalonians 5:19), an experience similar to that of David when he had deliberately committed a gross sin and finally cried out: “Take not thy Holy Spirit from me” (Psalm 51:11).

In addition to these specific references, there are approximately forty references in the Old Testament to “the Spirit of God” or “the Spirit of the LORD”—the first being at the very point of creation when “the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters” (Genesis 1:2). All three persons of the Godhead are seen in action in Isaiah 48:16: “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and His Spirit, hath sent me.” God the Holy Spirit was, indeed, “put within” Moses and His people long ago, just as He indwells each believer today.

Answer 8

The eternal and infinite Love and life of That The Father and the Son give to eachother is so real that it begets a PERSON, the Holy Spirit-The third person of the Blessed Trinity.

Just like the love and life that a married man and women give to eachother through intercouse becomes so real that 9 months later it is a real person, a baby. God bless.

Answer 9

not a spirit person but the active force of Jehovah God, the active force guilds you.

Answer 10

An Active Force--------------
The Bible's use of "holy spirit" indicates that it is a controlled force that Jehovah God uses to accomplish a variety of his purposes. To a certain extent, it can be adapted to perform a great variety of operations. @ Ge 1:2 the Bible states that "God's active force [ "spirit" (Hebrew, ru'ach)] was moving to & fro over the surface of the waters."
Here, God's spirit was His active force working to shape the earth.
God uses His spirit to enlighten those who serve Him.
David prayed: "Teach me to do your will,
for you are my God. Your spirit [ru'ach] is good;
may it lead me to the land of uprightness." (Ps 143:10)
When 70 men were appointed to help Moses,
God said to him: "I shall have to take away some of the spirit [ru'ach] that is upon you and place it upon them."--Nu 11:17.
Bible prophesy was recorded when men of God were
"borne along by holy spirit [Greek, from pneu'ma]."---
(2 Pe 1:20,21)
In this way the Bible was "inspired of God,"
the Greek word for which is The-o'pneu-stos,
meaning "God-breathed." (2 Tim 3:16)
And holy spirit guided certain ppl to see visions or to have prophetic dreams.--2 Sam 23:2; Joel 2:28,29;
Luke 1:67; Acts 1:16; 2:32,33.
The holy spirit impelled Jesus to go into the wilderness after his baptism. (Mark 1:12)
The spirit was like a fire w/in God's servants,
causing them to be energized by that force.
And it enabled them to speak out boldly and courageously.--Micah 3:8; Acts 7:55-60; 18:25; Rom 12:11; 1 Thess 5:19.
By His spirit, God carries out His judgements on men and nations. (Isa 30:27,28; 59:18,19)
And God's spirit can reach everywhere, acting for ppl or against them. Ps 139:7-12

Just a lil tidbit:
On one occasion the holy spirit appeared as a dove.
On another occasion it appeared as tongues of fire-------
Never as a Person.

Power Beyond Normal---------
God's spirit can also supply "power beyond what is normal" to those who serve Him. (2 Cor 4:7)
This enables them to endure trials of faith or to do things they could not otherwise do.
For example, regarding Samson, Judges 14:6 relates
"The spirit of Yahweh seized on him,
and though he had no weapon in his hand he tore the lion in pieces." (JB)
Did a divine person actually enter or seize Samson, manipulating his body to do what he did?
No, it was really "the power of the LORD [that]
made Samson strong." (TEV)
The Bible says that when Jesus was baptized,
holy spirit came down upon him appearing like a dove,
not like a human form. (Mark 1:10)
This active force of God enabled Jesus to heal the sick and raise the dead. As Luke 5:17 says: "The power of the Lord [God] was behind his [Jesus'] works of healing."--JB
God's spirit also empowered the disciples of Jesus to do miraculous things--Acts 2:1-4 relates that the disciples were assembled together at Pentecost when "suddenly there occured from heaven a noise just like that of a rushing stiff breeze,... and they all became filled w/ holy spirit and started to speak w/ different tongues, just as the spirit was granting them to make utterance."
So the holy spirit gave Jesus and other servants of God the power to do what humans ordinarily could not do.

Not A Person----------------
Are there not, however,
Bible verses that speak of the holy spirit in personal terms?
Yes, but note what Catholic theologian Edmund Fortman says about this in The Triune God: "Although, this spirit is often described in personal terms, it seems quite clear that the sacred writers [of the Hebrew Scriptures] never conceived or presented this spirit as a distinct person."

In the Scriptures it is not unusual for something to be personified.
Wisdom is said to have children--Luke 7:35.
Sin & Death are called kings--Ro 5:14,21.
At Ge 4:7 The New English Bible (NE) says
"Sin is a demon crouching at the door," personifying sin
as a wicked spirit crouching at Cain's door.
But, of course, sin is not a spirit person;
nor does personifying the holy spirit make it a person.
Similarly, @ 1 John 5:6-8 (NE) not only the spirit but also
"the water, and the blood" are said to be "witnesses."
But water & blood are obviously not persons, & neither is the holy spirit a person.
In harmony w/ this is the Bible's general usage of "holy spirit" in an impersonal way, such as paralleling it w/ water & fire.--- Matt 3:11; Mark 1:8.
Ppl are urged 2 become filled w/ holy spirit instead of wine.-- Eph 5:18
They r spoken of as being filled w/ holy spirit in the same way they r filled w/ such qualities as wisdom, faith & joy. (Acts 6:3; 11:24; 13:52)
And @ 2 Cor 6:6 holy spirit is included among
a # of qualities.
Such expressions would not b so common if the holy spirit were actually a person.
Then, too, while some Bible texts say that the spirit speaks, other texts show that this was actually done through humans or angels. Matt 10:19,20; Acts 4:24,25; 28:25; Heb 2:2.
@ Matt 28:19 reference is made to "the name...of the holy spirit." But the word "name" does not always mean a personal name, either in Greek or English.
When we say "in the name of the law" we r not referring to a person. We mean that which the law stands for, its authority.
Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament says:
"The use name (onoma) here is a common 1 in the Septuagint & the papryi 4 power or authority."
So baptism 'in the name of the holy spirit',
that it is from God & functions by divine will.

"On the whole, the NT, like Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power."--A Catholic Dictionary.

The "Helper"--------------------
Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a "helper," & he said is would teach, guide, & speak. John 14:16,26;16:13.
The Greek word he used for helper (pa-ra' kle-tos)
is in the masculine gender.
So when Jesus referred to what the helper would do,
he used masculine personal pronouns. John 16:7,8
On the other hand, when the neuter Greek word for spirit (pneu'ma) is used, the neuter pronoun "it" is properly employed.
Most Trinitarian translators hide this fact,
as the Catholic new American Bible admits regarding
John 14:17:
"The Greek word for; 'Spirit' is neuter,
& while we use personal pronouns in English ( 'he', 'his', 'him'),
most Greek MSS (manuscripts) employ 'it.' "
So when the Bible uses masculine personal pronouns in connection w/ pa-ra'kle-tos @ John 16:7,8 it is conforming to rules of grammar, not expressing doctrine.

So, the answers to ur Q's are:
1) No, the holy spirit is NOT a Person
& it is NOT part of a Trinity.
2) Nor is it an "impersonal force" (your words in the Q)
The holy spirit is God's active force that He uses to accomplish His will.
It is NOT equal to God.