If the mountain moves is it still faith?

Question

Matthew 17:20
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

Wouldn’t you know now that the mountains moved?
How is it that faith without results has become a virtue?

Answer 1

There is a collective misinterpretation of this passage. Jesus is trying to describe the ultimate reality that he has achieved and he's telling the listeners that they can achieve this as well. They can realize the permanence of the soul/being/whatever and the impermanence of the manifest world.

Answer 2

The word 'mountain' in the Scriptures refers to a 'problem' in your life. The people of Jesus time understood 'mountain' to be a big problem that they had to handle. Jesus said, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, (which is the smallest seed there is), you could move mountains.

Would we know now that the mountain (problem) is removed. Yes! It may be immediate, it may take a little time because other people are involved and are prayers must include the good of all.

All faith produces results.

Answer 3

Whether mountains moved or not is not important...
The belief that it would move mattered...this is faith and faith does not need results to become virtue..it itself is a virtue provided one has it!
The mustard seed seemingly small, grows to be a big plant and bears its fruit, but only when it gets buried,and starts it process of becoming one with the dust. Only then it blooms to its new dimensions. Similar is the faith you speak of, to start with and once firm, it takes a person through various stages and as he crosses them, one by one, his faith gets stronger and stronger...till he knows that he can do anything and to move mountains is then a small task.
Faith is the only friend and it will be the only friend at the end..

Answer 4

From Downfall to Upliftment: Reversing the Effect



The transformation of humanity's downfall into humanity's up-liftment may be achieved through a simple reversal of thinking. It is a shift from Separation Theology to Unity Spirituality. It is the reunion of God and Humanity. It is easier to experience Reunion with God on an individual basis than it is collectively. That is because it takes a great deal more energy to alter Collective Consciousness than it does to alter Individual Conscious-

ness. Yet Collective Consciousness can be altered when the alteration of Individual Consciousness reaches critical mass. When sufficient individual energies are lifted, the entire mass is elevated to a new level. The work of Conscious Evolution, therefore, is the work of changing consciousness at the individual level. That is why every effort to do so is critical. Every individual undertaking, every individual thought, word, or action which leads to the transformation of the Self and to the lifting of any other being, is of extraordinary importance. It is not necessary to move mountains to move mountains. It is necessary only to move pebbles. We must become People of the Pebbles. We must do our work on a person-to-person basis. Then we shall move mountains. Then the mightest
obstacles shall crumble, and the way shall be made clear.

A quote just sent to me, from Neale Donald Walsche,

Seemed appropriate. :-)))

{{{{{{{Cosmic Moving}}}}}}}

Answer 5

OK, this is what this question made me think about:
If a person was sitting in prayer, with faith in God and suddenly God appeared......Let's say for the sake of brevity that God looks like Debra Jo Rupp from That 70s Show.
God sits down and causes tea to appear in front of her, nods toward you and tea appears in front of you too.

After a period of semi-uncomfortable silence, God looks at you and says,"Is faith the same as knowledge?"

(Apparently God does this kind of thing a lot, appears to certain people in incognito form and asks a short question.)

You think about this. Good question.
God waits patiently for your answer.
It is true that faith, long held, and practiced in a prolongued dedicated way, will produce a feeling of knowing but there is still that small sliver of doubt, healthy doubt in your mind. Its the 'show me' part of your brain.
On the other hand, if you experience something that previously you only had faith in, there arises something new. Now this faith has been transformed into knowledge.

You reply to God (Kitty Foreman), "My answer is yes. Faith and knowledge are cut from the same cloth. If you did not have faith that God exists, then how could you have knowledge that God exists? Without faith, we would not even know how to perceive God's actual presence."
"Ah ha haah ha. You get a cookie," replied Debra Jo Rupp(God)

God vanishes in a puff of smoke and you think about it.

There is believing in something because you want to, like kids believing in Santa, and there is believing in something because you need to, like thinking that sooner or later the US government will get it right, and there is believing in something because it fills your soul, bathes you in transcendental light and causes profound bliss to arise in your mind, guides you and informs you at all times and even generates pure love, perfect compassion.
So faith and knowledge are both part of a process.
This doesn't mean that faith always becomes knowledge, but if the faith was based on good research and correct subtle intuitions, it may go to the next level and become knowing.

Faith without results is neither a vice nor a virtue.
It is simply faith without results, or unrequited faith. The true end to this story is that there is never really any end to this growth matrix we call life. So since there is no end, in fact no easy way to escape the endless cycles or death and rebirth, then there is always tomorrow. Faith is capable of great feats of miraculous natural power. Patience is one of the least of Faith's attributes. Faith can outwait anyone

Answer 6

Not a virtue, not a vice, reality is embedded in the mustard seed, the seed begins to awaken flowing upwards, sidewards and downwards. Out growing the mountain it flowers into all things. The mountain has helped in a way for it to discover itself.

Answer 7

When we depend on sight, it's not faith. Results, are still pending, it's still faith. When one looses faith in the object to be moved, it wasn't faith in Omnipotence, but rather in the circumstances that needed the mountain to be moved in the first place.

When the mountain moves, faith is no longer needed for that, but faith becomes greater in the person for whom it moved, and all the people that hear about it.

"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen."

Answer 8

i think of it ability that if u deeply have confidence, with none doubts in any respect, something can ensue. in bible cases human beings had the utmost faith in God and miracles got here approximately. actually, faith is intangibe so it could no longer circulate mountains, yet what this ability is that if u have self belief, something can ensue, no count number how massive.

Answer 9

Gnostic,

The important aspect of that saying is seen in the use of the symbols of a mustard seed. To have faith as a grain of mustard seed. What this is referring to is having the faith in the return of the laws that as you apply towards the ideal (the underlying truth/objective to reach) you will come closer and closer to embodying that ideal, since a mustard seed starts off very small but will soon become a great plant. It is having the faith in the fact that the laws will reward you of your application. To be honest this whole thing is faith, since it would be living your truth as you understand it and having the faith in the return element that your capacity of that truth will increase as you increase with it and your ability to live it out will also become greater.

This concept has been loss from modern Christianity.

Faith must always have result, as you know Gnostic, just as faith without works is dead and it having works makes it a living faith, so to is faith without gnosis as a result is dead and a faith without gnosis is a faith that is deprived of works, which in consequence makes it not faith at all.

Care to hear a voice from the past, a voice from ancient Christianity whom was a early church father in the 2nd century?

Quoting Clement of Alexandria in Smith & Wace's Bible dictionary: “Faith is the foundation; knowledge the superstructure, by knowledge faith is perfected, for to know is more than to believe. Faith is a summary knowledge of urgent truths; knowledge a sure demonstration of what has been received through faith, being itself reared upon faith through the teachings of the Lord. Thus the Gnostic grasps the complete truth of all revelation from the beginning of the world to the end, piercing to the depths of scripture, of which the believer tastes the surface only. As a consequence of this intelligent sympathy with the Divine Will, the Gnostic becomes in perfect unity in himself, and as far as possible like God. Definite outward observances cease to have any value for one whose being is brought into abiding harmony with that which is eternal; he has no wants, no passions; he rests in the contemplation of God, which is and will be his unfailing blessedness.”

Answer 10

I think to much pride causes faith without results become virtue. we don't want to accept the fact that we don't have enough faith!!!!
many times mountains are moved but we can't see it because we are to worldly or corporeal minded