Let me try this again. Please actually read the question before answering?

Question

Are there any documents, manuscripts or mentions of jesus before Paul wrote of him in his epistles?
And could you please if possible provide a link to a reference on it. Thanks

I asked this a while ago and got nothing but answers about the historical proofs of jesus, that is not what I am asking so no Josephus or Titus or anything after Paul please.

Yes this also includes the gospels

Peng what is vague. Any specific mention of christs name at all from before paul.

Craig, there are far far more historians of the time who did not write about jesus.

CTHULHU-where in the book of daniel does it mention jesus by name. Please dont use the OT.

old dog-um just no Lee Strobel's claims are supported by almost no reasonable bible scholar.

Paulie very rarely have I seen anyone date James before 70 C.E., not before Paul.

Crisket I have studied it that is part of why I am asking. Alexander and jesus though are not a great comparison IMO as one is a great ruler of which there were many. The other was the "miracle working son of god". He performed miracles in front of thousand and thousands of people shoould not one single mention be there?
While admitedly I am atheist I have spent a great deal of time studying these books not theologically so much but historically and as mythology.

Answer 1

The earliest dating of any book (or series of books) are indeed Paul's letters:
50-60 1 Thessalonians
50-60 Philippians
50-60 Galatians
50-60 1 Corinthians
50-60 2 Corinthians
50-60 Romans
50-60 Philemon
All were written 15-20 years after his death. The earliest known and widely accepted non-Christian report of Christians existing comes from the Roman Historian Tacitus, who speaks of Christian and the crucifiction in "Annals" when talking about the great fire that ravaged Rome in 64CE. This was written between 110-120CE.The writings of Josephus about Christ and Christianity, which are usually dated between 80-95CE, are often though to be Christian forgeries.

There are 2 "reported" books - The Passion Narrative and The Lost Sayings Gospel Q - which supposedly predate even the writings of Paul (30-40CE), but no copies exist.

One must remember, however, that the early Catholic Church regularly destroyed documents and writings that were contrary to their doctrine.

There may also be the alleged letter from Herod Antipas purporting to be directed to the Roman Senate defending his actions concerning both John the Baptist and Jesus Christ, which is said to be found among the records of the Roman Senate. This has yet to surface, however.

Sometime between 25 and 37CE, Emperor Tiberitus issued an edict against grave robbing. Before this time punishment would had been mild. Why was it changed to death around the time of the crucifiction? Just food for thought...

They call it "faith" for a reason. Jesus was poor, a nomad, and considered a criminal. It is not surprising that there are no writings that exist from his lifetime. Even in this day of 24hr news broadcast around the world, how often do you hear about every poor person (by name) who commits a minor crime? You don't.

Answer 2

BEFORE the Gospels and the epistles of Paul? No, there are none. But this is normal, especially considering the time.

Alexander wasn't written about until five hundred years after his death.

The fact that ANYTHING was written within a hundred years says something.

By the way, though, Thallus did write about the sun being darkened at the time of Jesus's crucifixion; he wrote it in about 50-55 A.D. That's pretty soon after the fact, I'd say.

This is a good article on Thallus (yes, I know it's a Christian response, but the arguments make sense, and besides, there's no such thing as an unbiased source. Even if it were written by skeptics and atheists it would be no less biased):
http://www.tektonics.org/jesusexist/thallus.html
And here's another good site to check out, on historical writings:
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/jrthal.html

See, what *I* think is that people like you are expecting Christians to pull out a writing dated before 40 A.D., that's an original manuscript, and that is written by someone who saw Jesus personally, and attests to all the things written in the Bible. Right?

I seriously doubt that any such writing will ever be found. There are several reasons for this:
1. Writing materials were NOT easy to come by.
2. The material that passed as "paper" in those days was NOT something that lasts like, say, our paper does now. The original manuscript would not have been able to be saved, unless it was in a jar of clay, tightly sealed, and set in a cave (like the Dead Sea scrolls).
3. If there HAD been anyone who wrote any such thing at the time, it would have been saved by Christians, and would probably have made it into the Bible, in which case, it wouldn't "count" according to most skeptics.
4. If there had been such a writing, it's entirely possible that unless it DID make it to a Christian community, it wouldn't have survived, for the simple fact that most of Jerusalem was burned to the ground, and from the time Nero became emperor of Rome until Constantine, Christianity was heavily persecuted, and all copies of what would become the New Testament, as well as other Christian writings or histories of Jesus were supposed to have been burned. Wow, that was a long sentence.

People did not have newspapers back then. They didn't just turn on the TV if they wanted to know about someone. This seems like it's pretty obvious, right? If you're with me this far, you're probably thinking, "Duh, of course I know that. Does The_Cricket think I'm an idiot?" No, I don't think you're an idiot. However, I DO think that many people miss why it's so important that they didn't have newspapers and TV back then: There was NO REASON to write about something (or someone) when almost ALL news was passed on by word of mouth. Because almost all news was passed by word of mouth, if anyone doubted the accuracy of what they were being told, they could go talk to eyewitnesses.

Please study into the culture of the 1st century A.D. as thoroughly as possible. It'll help you understand a bit better.

Answer 3

As far as the historians of the day were concerned, he was just a "blip" on the screen. Jesus was not considered to be historically significant by historians of his time. He did not address the Roman Senate, or write extensive Greek philosophical treatises; He never travelled outside of the regions of Palestine, and was not a member of any known political party.

Jesus was executed as a criminal, providing him with the ultimate marginality. This was one reason why historians would have ignored Jesus.

Jesus marginalized himself by being occupied as an itinerant preacher. Of course, there was no Palestine News Network, and even if there had been one, there were no televisions to broadcast it. Jesus never used the established "news organs" of the day to spread His message. He traveled about the countryside, avoiding for the most part (and with the exception of Jerusalem) the major urban centers of the day

Jesus' teachings did not always jibe with, and were sometimes offensive to, the established religious order of the day. It has been said that if Jesus appeared on the news today, it would be as a troublemaker. He certainly did not make many friends as a preacher.

Jesus was a poor, rural person in a land run by wealthy urbanites. Yes, class discrimination was alive and well in the first century also!

Answer 4

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Answer 5

Yes. Mathew and John Mark, and Luke! They wrote down these things before Paul wrote his epistles and there was John as well.
I know of the proof but it is so far back in my memory that it precedes the personal computers! I'm sorry but I cannot direct you to a site that would give you the historical proof.
I do have a book from an investigative reporter named Lee Strobel. He set out to prove his wife wrong and came up with an amazing amount of information that changed his mind, and he went from an atheist to a Christian. He couldn't prove his wife wrong.
So he wrote a book. "The Case For Christ".
Pick it up, it is a fascinating read from his interviews with a number of qualified men and women.

Answer 6

Nothing whatsoever. The early Christian church expected the imminent return of Christ and felt no need to add to the Jewish scriptures. The earlist writings in the New Testament were letters from Paul to churches where he had preached earlier. Letters, not books. They were assumed to be temporary documents. It wasn't until the apostles were dying off that anyone began collecting the verbal histories of Jesus and the church to write down.

Answer 7

All the possible non-Jewish historians of the time wrote about Jesus (Tacitus and Suetonius). All the possible Jewish historians of the time wrote about Jesus (Josephus and the Jewish Rabbinical writings). There are a number of other early mentions of Jesus but not before Paul, as you requested.

Answer 8

No, there are not. The gospels post-date the pauline epistles. This has lead some to conjecture that there is no historical basis for Jesus whatsoever.

Answer 9

The earliest book written of the New Testament is James, written between the stoning of Stephen and the Jerusalem council of A.D.50. James was Jesus' (half) brother, who originally didn't believe in Him until after His resurrection. James later became head of the church at Jerusalem.

Answer 10

your question is confusing? yes, there are writings of Jesus before Paul (Saul). What is it you really need? We want to help, but your question is vague. The new testament starts it.
In Matthew 1; The genealogy of Jesus. Also before Jesus was born, Joseph had a dream and the angel told him that he would name his son Jesus.

.21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Go To www.bibleexplained.com

Paul- a Pharasee from Tarsus Ac 9:11 named Saul at birth (Ac 13:9) Jesus appeared to him on a road to Damascus (Ac 9: 4-9), and he became a powerful apostle (Gal 1) His writings make up a significant portion of the New Testament, ranging from intricate theology to passionate letters to STRUGGLING CHURCHES.