JW's...Who is the mediator for the Great Crowd?

Question

According to the Watchtower, Jesus is only the mediator for the annoited class. If that is true...who is the mediator for you?

(Watchtower, 4/1/79, p. 31): "So in this strict Biblical sense Jesus is the “mediator” only for anointed Christians.The new covenant will terminate with the glorification of the remnant who are today in that covenant mediated by Christ. “This great crowd” of “other sheep” that is forming today is not in the new covenant. However by their associating with the little flock of those yet in that covenant they come under benefits that flow from that new covenant."

"14 While the 'other sheep' are not branches of the Abrahamic-covenant 'olive tree' or of 'the true vine,' Christ Jesus, they must prove themselves to be Christ's disciples. Like all the anointed Christian 'branches,' they must 'keep bearing much fruit.' This they do by producing Christlike qualities of the new personality, including 'the fruitage of the spirit.' (Galatians 5:22, 23; Matthew 28:19, 20; Colossians 3:5-14) But to be really fruitful they give active expression to such qualities by sharing in the work of preaching 'this good news.' (Matthew 24:14) Just as the anointed 'branches' of the 'true vine' must remain in union with Christ, the 'other sheep' must remain in close union with 'the faithful and discreet slave,' Christ's anointed 'brothers.' Only thus can they hope to 'inherit the Kingdom prepared for them from the founding of the world." - The Watchtower, 8/15/1983, page 23

I know that the bible says Christ is the mediator for ALL.... but that is not the WTB and TS stance on it... So there is no need to get all harsh with me when your organization contradicts the bible... all im doing is trying to understand the JW viewpoint

just another WT quote i found...thought i would add it...

WT--- "Likewise, the Greater Moses, Jesus Christ, is not the Mediator between Jehovah God and all mankind. He is the Mediator between his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, and the nation of spiritual Israel, which is limited to only 144,000 members." (The Desire for Peace and Security Worldwide, 1986, p. 10).

Answer 1

Jesus is the mediator for all of us and their is no such thing as different classes of Christan's, Jesus died for all mankind, be careful of what year they said that ,once you could not take blood now the policy has change .

Answer 2

The JW answers are worth comparing with the ex-JW answers. It seems the JWs who are not anointed with the Holy Spirit (every one who has answered so far) have made the cardinal error of applying scriptures addressed to the anointed as if they were included in that class. Careful reading of the context of the texts quoted show only those anointed with the Holy Spirit can claim those promises. Romans chapter 8 (1st half) clarifies this nicely. All JWs should read that and get clear in their minds that only those who receive the Spirit of sonship, who become co-heirs with Christ in glory (the anointed) belong to Christ and are no longer controlled by the sinful nature, and submit to God's law. That's what Romans 8 says! They should then read the rest of the New Testament, understanding that they are NOT in that group.

Ex-JWs seem surprised, a touch confused, even, but that's not surprising because JW literature is very coy about this vital matter. Notice that not one single scripture is ever quoted by the Wt.Soc that proves their claim that non-anointed JWs have Jesus as their Mediator. All the N.T. texts used refer purely to the anointed while those from Revelation depend on the Wt.Soc unique interpretation that although the 'great crowd' is standing before heaven's throne, ascribing their salvation to the Lamb, they are actually doing this while on earth (because they say the great crowd never gets to heaven). The scriptures in Hebrews apply only to those in the New Covenant, of which Christ is the Mediator. All JWs who pass the bread and wine around at the memorial know - correctly - that they are NOT in the New Covenant. Wt.Soc talk of them being 'beneficiaries' has no biblical evidence to support it. It depends utterly on the Wt.Soc false doctrine about being able to be saved without being born again of the Holy Spirit - a total violation of John chapter 3.

There's nothing new about this JW teaching. It started in the 1930s when the newly 'identified' 'Jonadab' class were clearly told they were merely the equivalent of the Gibeonites (who saved their skins by forming an alliance with the Jews to be their servants). The goal-posts have moved only with the Wt.Soc now trying to convince the 'other sheep' that they can have just as much 'holy spirit' as the anointed if they work hard and be very good JWs. They are trying to merge the two classes (after having created two classes when the Bible had only one!)

So, the answer to your Q is: the Bible says Jesus Christ is the Mediator for all who will, one day, stand before heaven's throne, in heaven, worshipping those who occupy it.

Answer 3

They are saying that based on the power given to Jesus disciples as to mediate for him. Thing is they are expecting exclusive rights for religious teaching if a NWO ever happens, I believe they expect they will be teaching the people then about God's things, The same is expecting the Cath.Church, and the same are expecting the leaders of Israel.

They say that they are the chosen people and discreet servants.

Thing is, were is the discretion when you give a date for the end of the world.

Jesus said somewhat: "they will tell you, here is the Christ, or here, or there" , "many will come in my name".

So let us keep studying and see what happens.

Answer 4

through fact the 15 August 1989 Watchtower of course states, Jesus is the mediator purely for the a hundred and forty four,000. Who then, is the mediator for the relax ninety 9.9% of J.W's, the 'super crowd of different sheep' who're no longer anointed and who're no longer interior the hot Covenant? a million April 1979 Watchtower, internet site 31 delivers the respond: "the super crowd of different sheep it truly is forming on the instant isn't in that new covenant. regardless of the undeniable fact that, by ability of their associating with the little flock of those yet in that covenant they arrive decrease than reward that bypass from the hot covenant." it truly is definitely real that in case you're actually not interior the hot Covenant (as anointed Christians with a heavenly desire) then Jesus Christ can't be your mediator. that's what the Bible of course says. The heresy is in pretending that in case you go alongside with the remnant of the a hundred and forty four,000 you will income from the hot Covenant. surprisingly much 2,000 years after the hot testomony grew to become into written it abruptly includes gentle that in case you belong to an business enterprise you will be stored by ability of putting onto the religious coat-tails of people who're interior the hot Covenant. that's the reason ninety 9.9% of Jehovah's Witnesses have not have been given any coverage of salvation. they have been denied permission to pass into into the hot Covenant by ability of an business enterprise who has made up the circumstances for salvation. i assume the Bible purely isn't sturdy adequate for the Governing physique.

Answer 5

As someone who was raised in the org. and left when I was old enough to get on my own, I am actually amazed at this doctrine. Until recently, I had no idea that this was being taught, so this must be "New Light" since the 80's when I was coming up.

I can't even fathom such an idea. Nowhere in Scripture does it say, even once, that Jesus is the Mediator for the 144k and certainly not that He is exclusively so! First of all, we are building a false premise on top of another false premise that presumes that the 144k is a spiritualized concept and not Jews, as the Bible clearly states in Rev. 14:4. The verse is specific: they are Jewish, virgin, and male.

Now, as to who Christ is Mediator for, we have to turn to the book of Hebrews since the entire epistle is about the position of Christ since His ascension back to heaven. One passage that is good to look at is Heb. 4: 13-16. Verse 13 says "neither is there ANY CREATURE that is not manifest in his sight, but ALL things are naked and open unto the yes of him with whom we h ave to do."

At that point, Paul begins to describe Christ's office as High Priest and says that He is worthy to fill this role because he was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (v 14, 15).

Are the 144k the only ones who are tempted? Are the 144k the only ones who he came to earth to identify with, as described in v 15? And, as their numbers quickly dwindle, and they ascend to heaven, who does Christ then fulfill this office for?

Paul says in verse 16 that all of us are able to come boldly before the throne of grace to obtain mercy and help in time of need. Are the 144k the only ones that God bestows mercy and help upon? Of course not!

Any believer has this promise because Jesus Christ himself said that we could have courage because he had overcome the world. How did he do that? By providing propitiation for our sins--not just for the sins of the 144k, but for all who would accept that atonement on their behalf.

Answer 6

That would be Jesus! I mean Michael! I mean I give up this is just too confusing for me.

We will have to wait on the Governing body to change their mind and then change it back again to know for sure. It might be in the bible somewhere, but the governing body is above the scriptures, so we will have to wait on what they say.

Answer 7

The word 'mediator' is in the relationship of two people and a established covenant.

Just as Moses was the mediator between the nation of Israel and Jehovah.

Jesus is the mediator between the anointed Christians and Jehovah.

This covenant is for those who reign with Christ from heaven.

Jesus blood (which is a different subject) was shed for all mankind.

Those whose hope is live under the Kingdom arrangement are not in the covenant relationship, just as the vast great crowd of Egyptians who left with Moses.

John the Baptist is not in the new covenant because he died prior to Christ, yet because of Jesus' shed blood, John can be resurrected.

Where will John be resurrected to?

Luke 23:43 And he said to him: “Truly I tell you today, You will be with me in Paradise.”

Prior to Jesus the hope of the Jews was to be resurrected to life in Paradise, or in the Garden of Eden.

The book of Revelation makes it clear that spiritual Jews rule with Christ

(Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision that which is on the outside upon the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one on the inside, and [his] circumcision is that of the heart by spirit, and not by a written code. The praise of that one comes, not from men, but from God.)

According to Paul, who is a Jew today?

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If you are really trying to only understand, then why are you printing your own interpretation of the truth?

Why do you criticize our answers?

Answer 8

i never could understand how a member of the anointed class could be disfellowshipped when their mediator was Jesus only.

also, did disfellowshipping mean they no longer go to heaven or did that only mean they were no longer a JW?

LOL

so, if their disfellowshipped status had no bearing on their heavely hope, it means going to heaven doesn't require the approval of the WBTS. if God called them to heaven, who could have the chutzpah to say they couldn't go? makes no sense.

Answer 9

--CHRIST-- IS ALL obedient mankinds "MEDIATOR"!--including for the great crowd!

(1 Timothy 2:5-6) “. . .For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. . .”
-- DOES IT NOT SAY....christ is the "one mediator between God & men"(ALL MEN) & " a ransom for all"--you do know what that means or do you?
--ARE THE GREAT CROWD part of all men & women, children?

---THE SCRIPTURES always supersede what any one article states!
---JUST BECAUSE there is an extension in the role the annointed might play is not a binding doctrine!
--NO BIG DEAL so please stop trying to make something when there is nothing.

--HOW CAN YOU think that a comment made in the watchtower in 1976 carries any more weight in non-docturnal matters?
--WHY DON'T you go back a hundred years and see what other issues you can conjure!

--MY GOODNESS, with all the effort in research to make issues, you resemble those that Paul warned against:

(1 Timothy 6:3-5) “3 If any man teaches other doctrine and does not assent to healthful words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, nor to the teaching that accords with godly devotion, 4 he is puffed up [with pride], not understanding anything, but being mentally diseased over QUESTIONING (my caps) and debates about words. From these things spring envy, strife, abusive speeches, wicked suspicions, 5 violent disputes about trifles on the part of men corrupted in mind and despoiled of the truth, thinking that godly devotion is a means of gain.”
--TRIFILING is so unbecoming even those who think they know the truth!

Answer 10

In the years that followed, the path of the righteous ones continued to get brighter and brighter. In 1985 light was shed upon what it means to be declared righteous “for life” and righteous as a friend of God. (Romans 5:18; James 2:23) The meaning of the Christian Jubilee was thoroughly explained in 1987.

In 1995 the separating of “the sheep” from “the goats” was more clearly understood. The year 1998 saw the detailed explanation of Ezekiel’s temple vision, which is already in the course of fulfillment. In 1999 came clarification of when and how ‘the disgusting thing stands in a holy place.’ (Matthew 24:15, 16; 25:32) And in 2002 further discernment was gained regarding what it means to worship God “with spirit and truth.”—John 4:24.

In addition to the organizational and doctrinal refinements, there have been refinements with regard to Christian conduct. For example, in 1973 the use of tobacco was seen as a “defilement of flesh” and was to be viewed as serious wrongdoing. (2 Corinthians 7:1) A decade later, the July 15, 1983, issue of The Watchtower clarified our position on the use of firearms. These are just some examples of the increasing light in our time.

Go On Walking in the Path of Increasing Light

“Accepting a change when it comes and adapting to it can be difficult,” admits one longtime elder. What has helped him accept the many refinements he has witnessed in the 48 years that he has been a Kingdom proclaimer? He answers: “Having the right attitude is the key. Refusing to accept a refinement is to be left behind as the organization moves ahead. If I find myself in a situation where changes seem hard to accept, I reflect on Peter’s words to Jesus: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.’ Then I ask myself, ‘Where shall I go away to—out there into the darkness of the world?’ This helps me to hold firmly to God’s organization.”—John 6:68.

The world around us is certainly in dense darkness. As Jehovah continues to shed light on his people, the gap between them and those of the world keeps on widening. What does this light do for us? Well, just as shining a spotlight on a pothole on a dark roadway does not remove the hole, light from God’s Word does not remove pitfalls. Yet, divine light surely helps us to avoid them so that we can continue walking in the path of increasing light. Let us, then, continue to pay attention to Jehovah’s prophetic word, “as to a lamp shining in a dark place.”—2 Peter 1:19. also where did that person get our belief changed on the stand of blood issue