Do you REALLY know what purgatory is?

Question

Who here knows what purgatory is?

1 Cor. 3:12-15: "Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire."

The main thing to remember is that Prugatory is ONLY FOR THE SAVED. The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines purgatory as a "purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven," which is experienced by those "who die in God’s grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified" (CCC 1030). It notes that "this final purification of the elect . . . is entirely different from the punishment of the damned" (CCC 1031).

Comments?

Remeber two Biblical principals:
1) Nothing unclean can enter heaven (book of Revelation)
2) You are not "perfect" while you areon earth.

So, somewhere between death and heaven, the final cleansing of any imperfection must take place. That cleansing, or "purgation" is called Purgatory.

EVERYBODY: PLEASE READ THIS LINK:
http://www.catholic.com/library/Purgatory.asp

Answer 1

"You, therefore, must be perfect, as your Heavenly Father is perfect."
Matthew 5:48

It stands to reason that since GOD is perfect, then Heaven has to be a perfect place, and nothing imperfect can enter (Revelation 21:27). GOD will not join Himself to anything defiled. If a person dies with sins not sufficient for hell (the sin unto death, 1John 5:16-17), and has lesser sins to prevent entry into Heaven, then there has to be a third place in which to atone for them. This would be a temporary place, as stated in Matthew 5:25-26, "You shall not come out until you have paid the last penny".
Come out of where?

After Adam's sin, the gates of Heaven were closed, and no one was allowed to enter (John 3:13) until Jesus Christ redeemed the human race and opened the gates once again. Where were the spirits of Moses and Elias, who appeared and spoke with Jesus at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:3)? They could not have been in Heaven since it was closed, and they would have been lost had they been in hell. They had to have been in a third place. If there was a third place then, why not a third place now?

What about Lazarus? He was already dead four days (John 11:17) when Jesus arrived at his tomb. Where was his soul during those four days? It could not be heaven or hell for the same reasons as for Moses and Elias.
His soul had to have been in a third place.

Philippians 2:10 says:
"That at the name of Jesus, every knee should bend of those in Heaven, on earth, and 'under the earth'."
'Under the earth', could it mean hell, or is it a third place?
Non Catholic theologians struggle trying to reconcile their denial of the existence of Purgatory with what Paul said in 1Corinthians 3:12-15:
"Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each man’s work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire*."
To whom do these verses refer? Obviously the person is not in hell, as verse 15 says "himself will be saved". He cannot be in heaven either as the same verse implies suffering, "as through fire", and there is no suffering in heaven. These verses say that man will be purified by fire and then will be saved to enter Heaven. Where will this, "yet as though through fire", take place if not in a third place called Purgatory?

*The Greek word used for fire is "pursw" (puroo) of which "pur" is the root word for Purgatory.

"And who shall be able to think of the day of His coming? And who shall stand to see Him? For HE IS LIKE A REFINING FIRE, and like the fuller's herb; AND HE SHALL SIT REFINING AND CLEANSING THE SILVER. AND HE SHALL PURIFY THE SONS OF LEVI, AND SHALL REFINE THEM AS GOLD, AND AS SILVER, and they shall offer sacrifices to the Lord in justice."
Malachi 3:2-3
"...Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered; and I will turn My hand to the little ones. And they shall be in all the earth, said the Lord, TWO PARTS IN IT SHALL BE SCATTERED, AND SHALL PERISH, BUT THE THIRD PART SHALL BE LEFT THEREIN. AND I WILL BRING THE THIRD PART THROUGH THE FIRE, AND WILL REFINE THEM AS SILVER IS REFINED, AND I WILL TRY THEM AS GOLD IS TRIED. THEY SHALL CALL ON MY NAME, AND I WILL HEAR THEM. I WILL SAY: YOU ARE MY PEOPLE. AND THEY SHALL SAY; THE LORD IS MY GOD."
Zechariah 13:7-9
"As silver is tried by fire, and gold in the furnace, so the Lord tries the hearts."
Proverbs 17:3.
The metal refiner watches the silver, for if the process is longer than necessary, the silver will be harmed.
"He shall sit refining and cleansing the silver. And he shall purify the sons of Levi, and shall refine them as gold, and as silver..."
Malachi 3:3.
HE KNOWS THE PROCESS IS COMPLETE WHEN HE CAN SEE HIS OWN IMAGE REFLECTED IN THE SILVER.
GOD SAID, "LET US MAKE MANKIND IN OUR IMAGE AND LIKENESS."
Genesis 1:26

"...Woe is me, because I have held my peace; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people that has unclean lips, and I have seen with my eyes the King of the Lord of Hosts. And one of the Seraphims flew to me, and in his hand was a live coal, which he had taken with the tongs off the altar. And he touched my mouth and said, 'BEHOLD THIS HAS TOUCHED YOUR LIPS, AND YOUR INIQUITIES SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY, AND YOUR SIN SHALL BE CLEANSED'." Isaiah 6:5-7
What can this possibly mean other than a purgation of sins through fire?

In 1Peter 3:19, Christ preached to the spirits in prison. What spirits? What prison? We will become pure spirits only after we die, so the spirits have to be the spirits of the dead. Prison cannot mean Heaven, and souls in hell are lost forever. Prison must mean a third place.
1Peter 4:6, the Gospel was preached "even to the dead". Again, where were these dead?
Matthew 12:32, "...but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him either in this world or in the world to come." This passage alludes to another world in which some sins will be forgiven. What other world? Again it could not be either Heaven or hell.
Hebrews 12:23, "...and to the Church of the Firstborn who are enrolled in the heavens, and to GOD, THE JUDGE OF ALL AND TO THE SPIRITS OF THE JUST MADE PERFECT."
We have already seen from Revelation 21:27 that nothing imperfect will enter heaven, and in Hebrews 12:23, the spirits of the just are made perfect. Revelation 22:14 shows that there will be a cleansing before admission to the tree of life and entrance through the gates of the city. Where will all of this happen if not in a third place?

"For everyone shall be salted with fire, and every victim shall be salted."
Mark 9:48.
What fire, but the purification fire of Purgatory?
"But that servant who knew his masters will, and did not make ready for him and did not act according to his will, will be beaten with many stripes."
Luke 12:47.
Are people beaten in Heaven? Those in hell are lost, so where will this punishment be fulfilled?

Very strong evidence that a third place exists, is in 2Maccabees 12:38-46:
"...it is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to Pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins."
If there are only Heaven and hell, why then does Scripture ask us to pray for the dead? If the dead are in hell, prayer is useless. If the dead are in Heaven, prayer is not needed. Therefore there has to be a third place where prayers are needed.
St. Paul prayed for his dead friend Onesiphorus in 2Timothy 1:18,
"May the Lord grant him to find mercy from the Lord on that day."
Why would Paul pray for the dead if he thought his friend to be in heaven or hell where prayers would help neither?

The greatest torment in Purgatory is to be separated from GOD for a period of time. Remember, in this life we have five senses, and they are always a distraction for us when we try to concentrate on things of GOD such as prayer. After we leave this life, we are spirit and have lost our five senses. There are no more distractions.

Purgatory should be regarded as a great blessing from GOD. Even though souls there are in torment, it is only a temporary torment. All who go there are assured of eventually gaining the Kingdom of Heaven.
It sure beats the third alternative...

The doctrine of Purgatory was defined by the Council of Florence in 1431,
and was reaffirmed by the Council of Trent in 1563.

Some Scripture verses for Purgatory:
Sir 7:33, Isa 6:5-7, Isa 61:1, *2Macc 12:38-46, Mal 3:2-3, Mt 5:25-26,48, Mt 17:1-8, Mt 25:31-46, Lk 6:19-31,
Lk 12:58-59, *1Cor 3:12-15, 2Cor 5:10, Eph 6:18, Phil 2:10, 2Tim 1:16-18, Jam 1:12,5:19-20, Heb 9:27, Heb 12:23, 1Pet *1:3-7, 1Pet *3:13-20, *1Pet 4:6, Rev 6:9-10, Rev 21:27,22:14-15,
CCC 1030-1032.

What did the Church Fathers and early Church writers have to say regarding Purgatory?
Here are some references...
The 'J' numbers refer to "The Faith of the Early Fathers" by William A. Jurgens.
Tertullian, The Soul 58:1. J352 208AD
Tertullian, The Crown 3:2. J367 211AD
Tertullian, Monogamy 10:1. J382 213AD
Cyril of Jerusalem, Catechet Lecture 23:5:9-10. J852-*853
Basil, Homilies on the Psalms Ps7:2. J956
Gregory of Nyssa, Sermon on the Dead, J1061 382AD
Epiphanius of Salamis, Against All Heresies 75:8. J1109
Chrysostom, On Phillipians 3:4. J1206
Serapion, The Sacramentary 13L1. J1239a
Augustine, Psalms 37:3. J1467, Sermons 159:1. J1513,*1516
Augustine, Genesis Defended 2:20:30. J1544
Augustine, Faith and Works 1:1. J1737a
Augustine, City of GOD 21:24:2+. J1776,1780, J1920, J1934
Caesar of Arles, Sermons 179:104:2. J2233
Gregory I, Dialogues 4:40. J2321

Answer 2

Greetings Crusader. I agree with everything you said. Indeed nothing unclean will enter the kingdom of Heaven. Somehow I knew you would get the same old empty arguments meant to discourage us Catholics. I have heard the same boring and unjustified arguments before. Quote the blissfully ignorant:

Purgatory (or whatever) is not in the bible, you all made that up yada yada yada.

-Get a clue people and read the bible you like to use as a sledgehammer to hurt your Catholic Brethren! Not everything is in the Bible (Matthew 21:25, 2 Thessalonions 2:14). The faithful will be the first to admit that private interpretation of scripture is dangerous (2 Peter 1:20-21). Then again non-Catholic rabble like to ignore stuff from the bible anyway. [For Christians (of all denominations) who live with love and charity in your hearts you are not rabble and none of this applies to you. Bless you all.]

Here is a classic one. Catholics are not saved Christians, they are a cult keeping the Babylonian tradition alive.

-Everyone who quotes Hislop must have a time machine to go back to the era of early Christianity to verify some of these outlandish statements. To top it off, these time traveling adventurers must also be Gods because they can tell if a person is saved from eternal damnation. I thought only God knew the souls of humanity. Not so says the time-traveling-soul-seerers.

Sorry about the rant, now back to the question. I know what purgatory is based on what the Church teaches. It is a state of purification for those who responded to the love and sacrifice of Christ. It is a state meant to perfect the faithful so that they will be worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. The souls in purgatory are eternally saved but still have some things in them (bad habits, bad thoughts, vices, etc.) that need to be worked out so that they may be made worthy.

The Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Answer 3

Purgatory is unbiblical, and goes against the sufficiency of God's grace. The passage you stated deals with judgment seat of Christ for believers, in Heaven.

2Co 5:10 For we all must appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive the things done through the body, according to what he did, whether good or bad.

It is there we receive rewards for our works here on earth. Christ's work on the cross completely forgave all the sins of His people. To say otherwise is say His work was insufficient for the forgiveness and salvation of His people.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected in perpetuity the ones being sanctified.

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in the deviations and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all the deviations,
Col 2:14 blotting out the handwriting in the ordinances against us, which was contrary to us, even He has taken it out of the midst, nailing it to the cross;

1Jn 2:12 Little children, I write to you because you have been forgiven your sins through His name.

We are holy and righteous because Christ is holy and righteous. When God sees us, He sees Christ, not our sins or faults.
The work was completely done by Christ, we were forgiven by his death and justified by His resurrection. Nothing more needs to be done.

Answer 4

Purgatory is non-existant. It was devised by the catholic church to keep people dependent on the priest.

How many times, in history, has a priest been 'tipped' to pray somebody out of purgatory?

Answer 5

if you are born again according to acts 2:38, the blood of the Lamb (Jesus) covers us, justifying our sin (meaning "just-if I'd never sinned).

in God's eyes, b/c we are covered w/ His blood & if we continue to live a reprentent life, we ARE perfect in the eyes of God. that's what justification & sanctification is all about.

"... according to his mercy, he (God) saved us, by the washing of regeneration (baptism in Jesus' Name) & the renewing of the Holy Ghost (the infilling of God's Spirit).

scripture says that when we die & if we are born again, our spirit goes into the presence of the LORD... not to purgatory.
once a person is dead, you cannot pray for their sins to be removed & then they would enter heaven. that is false doctrine. the catholic bible is not accurate.

scripture says that Jesus is coming back for a perfect bride ... the church. they are justified & sanctified & are worthy therefore to enter heaven.

Answer 6

Yes, I do. But then, I'm Catholic. :)

Everything you said is correct, and I have YET to get even one reasonable explanation from a non-Catholic to explain those verses as meaning something else.

Answer 7

When you are dead, it is to late. We get rid of our sin nature by what is written in Acts 2:38! We receive the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues (charismatic) to overcome temptation. Only the OVERCOMERS shall enter into heaven.

Answer 8

Who invented this rubbish word purgatory and why?
Is it in the bible?
No I didn't think so.

Answer 9

its a place where crusaders go for killing thousands of inocent people.....

Answer 10

Nothing like that exists.