was my brother in law's breeder a respectable breeder?

Question

This question came up to me when I was reading the answers from NOdesignerdogs "post" about purebreds being in shelters....
and someone mentioned that most purebred who end up in shelters come from puppy mills, backyard breeders as no respectable breeders would "give" their dogs to irresponsible owners.... really? how can they be so sure? (genuine question -no debate)
my brother in law bought a puppy from a breeder and the dog is now agressive to the kids, growls, grabs the kids... I say it's not the dog, it's them, my brother in law and my sister in law. but what about the breeder???? that breed (visla) needs a lot of exercise and my brother in law's family is the opposite of the active family. and we all know what happens to a dog that does not have enough exercise or/and training!
Why did the breeder sell that puppy/dog who is now miserable in this inactive family to my brother in law? who confirmed me that he was indeed a respectable breeder...

That dog I know will end up in a shelter! that dog is miserable in this family. The kids play with my dogs (rescue) and not with their own dog! It's sad, and I knew it would happen, couch potatoe families should get couch potatoe dogs.

so to me, that breeder was not a responsible breeder... even though he did have all the check marks for being one.

they do have a contract. and I told them to return the dog to the breeder... so I don't know why they are not doing it (either the breeder is not as responsible as my brother in law confirmed me he was and my brother in law is ashamed because I work in rescue and I did question him about that breeder many many weeks, or my brother in law is in denial that since they "know" the parents of their dog,
their dog cannot harm the kids)
I think it's both.
I would have never chosen my brother in law's if I had to place a high energy dog in a family. I am responsible "rescue" person.

some of you have good points... I don't know what my brother in law said in the questionnaire... but looking at him and his wife and you just know they are not the "exercise" type. They are great people but not active at all, and you CAN SEE it.

My brother in law is no longer talking about the agression issue with my husband and I and whether or not is in contact with the breeder.
I reallly think he made a huge mistake and that breeder was not responsible and now he is ashamed of it (I am in rescue, and my husband's family is in rescue, and my family is in rescue)
I know all that from my mother-in-law who babysit the kids and intervened when the dog grabbed the kid's arm, and then the kids admitted they were scared of their dog...

Answer 1

This could be a "great" breeder - all the way up to the point where the breeder should take the dog back. If the breeder doesn't, he's a creep.
If he does, he's ok in my book.

Here's why I think so.

People go to rescues, shelters and breeders to adopt or buy.

They put on a great face. They fill out forms, answer questions etc. The breeder may have asked them everything and got all the "right" answers and sold them a pup.

I'll tell you why I'm not faulting the breeder (yet). I do adoptions. I'm REALLY good at it (I think). I'm good at talking with people, reading between the lines, getting them to talk with me, building rapport, reading the people, their body language, etc. Then I can match a dog (normally a lab) with the family.

I'm good at this. I reject people for lots of reasons but we will have families that make it through the vet checks, the paper work, the questions, the face to face etc and now I'm matching a dog to them... I make mistakes.
The dog changes... the people change... the people acted - the entire time....

It's a dance, a give and take, it's hard. I follow up and we take back dogs if it's not working out. But adoptions fail for reasons no one can foresee.... It happens. It happens with buying a pup too. Not often, but it does happen.

So, if this breeder is a good one, they will take the dog back.

If not,we will see what kind of breeder he is.

As for your family, I won't comment. I don't know them and if they did something right, something wrong or something in between.

I do think your family needs to take responsibilty for THEIR dog and do something. Get into classes, talk to an experience trainer, etc. Avoiding the problem tells me they are lazy. (sorry).

make sense?

EDIT:
DP hit the nail on the head.

If your family waits, they are making this dog worse. Seek help from the breeder first. If he fails them, then you help them. You don't want this dog to deteriorate and get to the point where it cannot be rehabbed.

EDIT2:
If they have a contract - they MUST contact the breeder. This is horrible. This is a life they are talking about. If that dog ends up in the pound, you'll need to contact the breeder yourself to save the dog.

Answer 2

A good responsible breeder would have checked out the family buying the puppy. Application/questionnarie, phone interview, home visit, check references (personal references and vet references). If the breeder didn't do that then he or she was not a good responsible breeder. I agree with you, the problem is with the owner and not the dog. Just because someone is a "private" breeder as opposed to a "commercial" breeder, does not mean that he is a reputable breeder. The breeder should have been checked out. To check on a breeder you can contact local breed clubs and the registry organization for the particular breed of dog. Failing that, and at this stage of the problem, do you want to know if the breeder is good? There should have a been a contract signed when they bought the pup and it should specify that if the owner can no longer keep the dog for any reason, the breeder will take it back. They need to contact the breeder and not dump this dog in a shelter.

Answer 3

It's good of you to be concerned. I don't know if you can blame the breeder, or call them irresponsible based on what you have told us. Sometimes people are very good at misrepresenting themselves, or even have every intention of living up to what they say they will do. If your in-laws are good, responsible parents who keep a nice house, and the breeder visited their home they may have been convinced that these folks understood the requirements of this breed and were willing to follow through. I do think the breeder should have followed up with them to see how the dog is doing, most breeders want to see the pup as it grows and matures if only to confirm that this was a "good breeding", but I don't know that they haven't. Maybe if you have a little more experience with dogs, and the kids are old enough, you can help them train the dog, and teach them to handle it properly. From what I know of Vizlas, they are fairly high energy dogs and can be a bit "intense", but I have seen several that are wonderful obedience and agility dogs. I think many kids do very well in handling if they are mature enough. If you are concerned for the safety of the kids- maybe you should contact the breeder and recommend a home visit. Some people get very defensive when you point out the mistakes they are making with their pets, but perhaps if you speak to your in-laws and let them know you are concerned for the safety of their kids and are willing to help, they might be more agreeable about it. Good Luck.

Answer 4

Did the breder have your brother in law sign a contract, in wich they stated that this dog is not to be turned over to a shelter if it is no longer wanted and that it must be returned to the breeder. If they did they were trying as best as anyone can to protect the dog for life if not I would NOT call them a responible breeder I would call them a BYB.
A responsible breeder makes sure that a dog that they breed is cared for for life... Not just the first 8 weeks of life. A responsible breeder may even call and check on the status of the pups in past litters a responsible breeder will want to help with questions and concirens. They will be knoledgable and helpfull and above all they will have the best intrests of the dogs in mind.

Answer 5

I guess someone looking for a pup could mislead a breeder as well as a breeder misleading a potential home. Who knows what your brother-in-law told this breeder just to get a pup.

If the breeder is not willing to take the dog back to keep him from being cast into a shelter, then no, they are not responsible breeders. A responsible/reputable breeder will take back ANY pup or dog they produced regardless of age or situation.

Has your brother-in-law contacted the breeder regarding the aggression issue?

Answer 6

Even IF a Respectable Breeder thoroughly checks out a family it is still no guarantee that the particular breed will be going home with a perfect family. If that family has it's heart set on that particular breed they are probably going to tell the breeder what the breeder wants to hear....

The family is most at fault for not thoroughly investigating the needs of the breed. And recognizing that this was not the breed for them. Vizsla's need lots of attention thorough obedience training. They are hunting dog so they need something to do.

I also have to wonder how the children in the family have treated the dog since it has become agressive with them.

Answer 7

It could be the breeders fault. I had an Irish setter when I was young that turned on our Vet. They determined the breeder was breeding the lines too close.

if the dog thinks it is playing by grabbing the kids then it's a training issue. the breed itself is described as "Lively, gentle-mannered, demonstrably affectionate and sensitive though fearless with a well developed protective instinct. " The dog may be treating the kids as puppies and thinks they are the ones misbehaving.

Exercise and training. Dont send the dog to a pound! Find a rescue if they are determined to give it up! The Vizsla Rescue club of America can help with that.

Answer 8

A responsible breeder interview potential buyers and has them fill out a questionairre to make sure they are a good fit for the breed. Then they also pick out a pup that would fit with them.

Also, a responsible breeder will work with buyers if they are having problems with the dog. They will give advice at the least, and normally will offer to help train the dog (and owner!). They will also always offer to take the dog for whatever reason at any time. They don't want any of their dogs to go to shelters.

Sounds like your brother in law got the dog from a BYB or puppymiller.

Answer 9

No, thats a irresponsible breeder. It's a breeders job to screen potential puppy buyers. The breed should fit into the family, or shouldn't be sold to them. A good breeder also stays in contact with the puppy's family & will take the puppy/dog back if thing aren't working out. Reputable breeders also breed with temperment in mind. Neither your brother- in law or the breeder did their research & the dog will probably end up paying the price.

Answer 10

I don't think you can say that respectable breeders would never sell a puppy to irresponsible owners. Are you aware that sometimes people lie to breeders in order to get a dog? You can check references ( who often are friends ) you can call a vet, but irresponsible owners aren't necessarily going to neglect their pet's health.

So you check them inside and out, check their references, call their vet.. Drive past their house even, and it seems decent.. But if someone has learned to lie to get a dog, or lie about their experience then they could end up with a dog that maybe they shouldn't have gotten.

I have gotten emails from people looking for a puppy.. It's apparent that they are on mission trying to learn the lingo. They write all the breeders and slowly learn what to say and what not to say. They wait a week or two and they write you again, but this time they sound educated.. Obviously these ones aren't all that brilliant.. But it does happen. If you aren't aware of who you have talked to you could easily educate someone in how to talk and what to say so that they could go on and con their way into getting a dog.

How would you verify something like that?? Learning what they need to say in order to get a dog.. Bafflin ya with BS...

Do you think that people are really going to give you references of people who would tell you the truth about them??

Edit : Tell your brother in law to return the dog to the breeder.. If the breeder is responsible they won't have a problem taking back their own dog.. If the breeders of dogs took them back ( regardless of purebred / mixed or whatevery ) then there wouldn't be all these dogs in shelters.. I think you should HAVE to take back a dog you bred.. Might make people think about breeding a litter if they thought they might get back 10 untrained unruly brat puppies that are now again their responsibility to deal with!

Remember... A Responsible breeder will help you with your dog if you are having problems.. Point you in the right direction, help where they can.. BUT the puppy buyer MUST contact the breeder, or must tell the breeder about the problem when contacted by the breeder.. If the breeder doesn't know there is a problem.. How can they be expected to help??? Often people wait til it's very very late in the game to finally admit they have a problem and have not done things properly.