Why did pope Honorius actively promote the Monothelite heresy? Why was Honorius posthumously condemned as a heretic by the 3rd council of Constantinople, the 2nd Council of Nicea, and again at the 4th council of Constantinople? How can a man guided by the Holy Spirit so as to be infallible when teaching faith and practice also be a heretic? It seems that the Holy Spirit should be able to do a little better than that. Or is it that the facts of history conflict with this particular dogma of the Roman Church?
2007-09-12 11:05:49 · 10 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
CJ, please stop it. I am asking a serious question, albeit a tough one, and you are not helping me, or your own cause.
2007-09-12 11:12:17 · update #1
Please people, I am looking for answers from Cathollics. I already know what everybody else thinks.
2007-09-12 11:13:22 · update #2
I am not trying to "bash" anybody. I just wonder how it is that the pope can also be a heretic?
2007-09-12 11:44:31 · update #3
Perhaps a quote from the 3rd council of Constantinople just to clear up any misgivings about whether or not this pope was viewed as a heretic or not:
We find that these documents [including those of Honorius] are quite foreign to the apostolic dogmas, to the declarations of the holy Councils, and to all the accepted Fathers, and that they follow the false teachings of the heretics…there shall be expelled from the holy Church of God and anathematized Honorius who was some time Pope of Old Rome, because of what we found written by him to Sergius, that in all respects he followed his view and confirmed his impious doctrines…To Honorius, the heretic, anathema!… [The devil] has actively employed them [including Honorius]…we slew them [including Honorius] with anathema, as lapsed from the faith and as sinners, in the morning outside the camp of the tabernacle of God. &c.”
Imagine that, an infallible pope, put under the curse of anthema for his fostering of heresy.
2007-09-12 11:48:11 · update #4
+ Papal Infallibility +
The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is infallible at closely defined times.
The Pope is only infallible when he, in union with the body of bishops, solemnly teaches that a doctrine as true. This is called "ex cathedra", literally meaning in Latin "from the chair".
This comes from the words of Jesus to Peter (the first Pope) and the Apostles (the first bishops), "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven" (Matthew 18:18) and "He who hears you hears me" (Luke 10:16).
At all other times the Pope can be just as wrong or sinful as you and me and be in need of forgiveness.
For more information, see the Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 891: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt1sect2chpt3art9p4.htm#891 and http://www.catholic.com/library/Papal_Infallibility.asp
+ Pope Honorius +
Honorius never "solemnly taught" about Monothelism. He wrote a couple of personal letters on the subject but never taught that Monothelism was doctrine.
In addition, his confusing stand on the subject was not "in union with the body of bishops."
Therefore this Pope was properly criticized by the councils.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07452b.htm
+ With love in Christ.
2007-09-12 15:25:56 · answer #1 · answered by imacatholic2 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
One more reason why this Anglican has not 'swum the Tiber' - the doctrine of papal infallibility was not believed 'everywhere, by all and for all time' - as called for in the so-called "Vincentian Canon" of St. Vincent of Lerins.
However, if you are to be fair, most scholars have been careful to point out that Honorius did not define anything 'ex cathedra'. Some were not content with even this sufficient defense. Some followed Baronius, but most, if not all, showed themselves anxious to prove that the letters of Honorius were entirely orthodox. There was indeed no difficulty in showing that Honorius was probably not a Monothelite. I've read all accounts...and I don't think that he was...
Being Conciliar in my ecclesiology...I'll go with the Councils.
Your mileage may vary. But, hey...that's what make theology such a great subject for debate!
2007-09-12 11:18:05 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 1⤋
As was said earlier, the declarations of the Pope are only considered infallible when speaking excathedra and this has been used very, very rarely and not in the case you present.
In Christ
Fr. Joseph
2007-09-12 11:21:10 · answer #3 · answered by cristoiglesia 7 · 4⤊ 0⤋
There is no Catholic doctrine that posits the Pope is infallible. The much confused doctrine is the *statements* made by the Pope as "ex cathedra" are infallible. These are very, very rare and they are drafted by many cardinals in agreement.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05677a.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
2007-09-12 11:13:20 · answer #4 · answered by Aspurtaime Dog Sneeze 6 · 4⤊ 0⤋
So whats you cause you and CJ obviously you have no clue to truth just want to bash the one true Church for a bunch of cheap laughs. Its has been like that from the beginning and it was promised thanks for keeping the prophecy alive and proving its truth.
Every time you see someone persecuting the Catholic Church, or speaking falsely against her, be happy, because those people are merely helping Catholics to gain their eternal reward in Heaven.
It is a promise from Jesus Christ Himself.
"Do not be surprised, brethren, IF THE WORLD HATES YOU." 1John 3:13
"IF THE WORLD HATES YOU, KNOW THAT IT HATED ME BEFORE YOU.
IF YOU WERE OF THE WORLD, THE WORLD WOULD LOVE ITS OWN. BUT BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT OF THE WORLD, BUT I HAVE CHOSEN YOU OUT OF THE WORLD, THEREFORE THE WORLD HATES YOU.
REMEMBER THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN TO YOU: NO SERVANT IS GREATER THAN HIS MASTER. IF THEY HAVE PERSECUTED ME, THEY WILL PERSECUTE YOU ALSO; IF THEY HAVE KEPT MY WORD, THEY WILL KEEP YOURS ALSO.
BUT ALL OF THESE THINGS THEY WILL DO TO YOU FOR MY NAME'S SAKE, BECAUSE THEY DO NOT KNOW HIM WHO SENT ME.
IF I HAD NOT COME AND SPOKEN TO THEM, THEY WOULD HAVE NO SIN. BUT NOW THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE FOR THEIR SIN. HE WHO HATES ME HATES MY FATHER ALSO. IF I HAD NOT DONE AMONG THEM WORKS SUCH AS NO ONE ELSE HAS DONE, THEY WOULD HAVE NO SIN. BUT NOW THEY HAVE SEEN, AND HAVE HATED BOTH ME AND MY FATHER;
BUT THAT THE WORD WRITTEN IN THEIR LAW MAY BE FULFILLED, 'THEY HAVE HATED ME WITHOUT CAUSE', (Psalms 35:19)".
John 15:18-25
I would say that Jesus Christ said it all in these verses written with the inspired pen of Saint John wouldn't you?
Name another Church which is attacked so much on a daily basis as is the Catholic Church?
Jesus Christ warned us, "You will be HATED BY ALL NATIONS for My Name's sake."
Matthew 24:9
"Blessed are you when men reproach you, and persecute you, and speaking falsely, say all manner of evil against you, for My sake. REJOICE AND EXULT, BECAUSE YOUR REWARD IS GREAT IN HEAVEN; for so did they persecute the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5:11-12
2007-09-12 11:25:31 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 1⤋
No man is infallible. Pope is no exception.
2007-09-12 11:12:07 · answer #6 · answered by Mutations Killed Darwin Fish 7 · 3⤊ 1⤋
The pope is no more infallible than I am.
2007-09-12 11:10:48 · answer #7 · answered by Bible warrior 5 · 3⤊ 1⤋
No one is perfect, no organization is perfect. We have flaws and we acknowledge them.
2007-09-12 11:09:55 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
CJ? You really do have issues.
2007-09-12 11:18:02 · answer #9 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 3⤋
Even more interesting as you check history, there is no "broken line" starting at Peter as they claim. It is all made up by the genocidal Vatican to keep power over the masses. Catholics are not saved Christians.
2007-09-12 11:10:36 · answer #10 · answered by CJ 6 · 0⤊ 10⤋