Christians: You do realize that the Atheists Stalin and Mao did not kill in the name of Atheism,...?

Question

... that they didn't claim to kill in the name of removing religion to make the world Atheist, they killed in the name of power (and admitted it), right?

Unlike the people of the Inquisition, the Crusades, the 30 Year War, etc, who killed in the name of Christianity?

Please tell me you learned something in high school at least.

You cannot compare politics and religion, for your convenience. It does not work.

So how about you stop using "Stalin and Mao" were Atheists as an excuse to point out the terrible things that Atheists have done in the past when those things were not done for Atheism?

Being Communist by no means making you Atheist, any more than being Communist makes you Christian.

You do realize that, right?

And before you say "where did that come from"? This is just the latest in a long long series of people asking idiotic questions of which they do not understand claiming that Stalin and Mao killed in the name of Atheism when they didn't....

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgRE6iZhy6A6ChyQ2tAOPHjd7BR.;_ylv=3?qid=20070912080522AA3Rf3b

JC, I gave you a link. Are you incapable of clicking on it? It only goes to another question asked on YA.

Catholic Crusader, grow up. I'm not a Stalin fan and neither is anyone else. But you can at least get the facts right instead of twisting them to suit your own purposes, can't you?

Chuckles... you are a classic example of Christians ignoring the facts.

It DOES NOT MATTER if your bible doesn't tell you to go do it. Not one bit. The fact is that it was done, by the perpetrators, claiming to do it for the name of god.

A brain does a person good. You seem to be missing yours.

herfinator, I wish there were more like you.

Honestly, looking at the answers to questions on here, its easy to see why the people of the world are almost all still at war with each other. Most of them have the brain of a pea.

Julien, bravo.

Opinionated, thats a load of crap. My whole family is Catholic. Yall are Christian, period. But yes, you are much much less annoying than the Protestants.

Answer 1

Crusades were done in order to give people the right to pilgrimage to the Holy Land, whoever posted last. It was done with a holy purpose in mind, and a lot of folks died over it. The Inquisition was done because a lot of Christians wanted everyone to be Christian. I'm quite sure the inquisitor felt they were saving those poor Jews from an eternity in Hell.
In any event. Yeah, a couple of crazy atheists have done some crazy things. Yeah, a lot of crazy Christians have done some crazy things. None of that matters today. What matters today is what Christians and Atheists do today. I don't see a lot of crusades going on right now. I see oil wars, and a lot of capitalism. I see religion trying to interfere with politics a little. I see atheists railing out at Christians for the actions of their leaders, and I see Christians calling Atheists the devil, and/or tools of the devil. I see evolution called a "Lie of the Devil." I still see some sick stuff, just not quite as sick as back then.

Answer 2

I find it fascinating that atheist use the syllogism that more people died because of religion (Holy Wars), therefore religion is the source of evil globally. The reasoning is that a religious value system is the catalyst for all the history's recorded wars and tragedies. What I find interesting is that communists have atheism as part of their value system, but they actually think they can divorce that value system from atheists such as Stalin and Mao by simply stated that it wasn't done in the NAME of atheism and therefore all is good.

A value system is a value system and it can and does dictate human actions. So, nice try atheists, but if I can't divorce the Spanish Inquisitors or the Crusaders from a Christian value system, you shouldn't be able to divorce those above mentioned men from theirs -- and atheism WAS part of that value system. BTW. during the Spanish Inquisition - ownership of a Bible was illegal. Yet, I'll bet you'll be hard pressed to note that they killed and suppressed based on a book that the masses under their control weren't able to read.

I've heard this argument by atheists ad nausem. Atheism is just as much a part of a worldview and value system as Christianity/Judaism can be. And worldviews/value systems DO influence human behavior.

One more question: Name one atheist government that didn't kill and supress its people? And please don't say Hitler was a Christian. He wasn't.

Just check out how anti-Christian Goebbels was. Please refer to the section (which is nicely cited and reference btw) on Joseph Goebels "Anti-Church Struggles."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels

If I throw Hitler into the mix with Stalin and Mao, you have more slaughtered who were anti-Christians than perhaps all those killed in Christian Holy Wars. Worldviews and value systems dictate behaviors - and atheism IS also a worldview/value.

Answer 3

Wars are waged for political power and control of resources. Religion may be thrown in by the elites to stoke up the trained killer/warriors, but wars are rarely if ever really about religion or belief in God. Today, in spite of the religious rhetoric, on all sides it's about who gets to control oil, the world's greatest, most versatile material resource at this time in history. Stalin and Mao waged their wars to control the vast resources of their respective continents. Religious people were controlled not because they did or did not believe in God, but because it was too hard to control what went on in religious meetings. Religious people might not put the state first and might actively work against the state's goals, as they had often done throughout history. It was easier just to stamp out that possibility by stamping out the idea and practice of any religion.

Answer 4

erm... Father K? I don't think I understood your answer.

Logic says otherwise? Which argument and what otherwise?

The chicken/egg is too tightly circular: Ignoring a common cause: logical fallacy. We don't know, so we keep looking.

The reference to Marx and the 'delusional atheist' bit were both Poisoning the well fallacies, with a side of appeal to ridicule.

Power is the corrupting force, not religion or political belief.

If a person who wants power can kill without unacceptable risk to themselves, they will. Expanding that to the scale of a country or government, the end results are obvious.

Answer 5

As a Christian, I am appalled by those of us who DO seem to lack a basic knowledge of history. Yes, a lot of "christians" have done a lot of stupid, evil, horrible stuff in the name of God, and the rest of us have to suffer for it when everyone else points it out to us. I am not saying it wasn't done at all, I am asking (in their name) for forgiveness for misguided "christians" and respect from others, knowing that not all Christians agree with each others actions or words, past or present.
Have a great day!

Answer 6

Pally, you seem as ignorant and bigoted as the people you claim to be attacking - just looking at your added replies shows that.

The Inquisition and things like the 30 Years War were political as well as religious events, in fact probably more political than religious. Religion is used by corrupt figures to justify killing, just as politics is. Its not religion, its US who do the killing.

The Inquisition was about destroying opposition to the Church. It began with the suppressing of the Cathars but was also part and parcel of the conquering of the south of France by the Vatican and the French King. Similarly the 30 Years War was as much a political war of Germanic states seeking to break free of Papal domination. And so it goes on. All the religious wars of that period were to do with political power struggles. Religion was a convenient fig leaf to add moral tone...

Stalin was atheist and so was Mao. They killed a lot of religious people and figures in this name when in fact the motivation was political. Religious institutions have tended to have strong political power in countries and can be focuses of opposition. They also killed a lot of non-religous people too. And you are wrong about Communism. A true Communist IS an atheist. A Christian or Hindu Communist isn't a true Communist as Marxism in its purist form is wholly materialist in its conception of human nature. And before you try to wriggle out of that one think about your own argument - the fundamental doctrines of Communism are anti-religious.

The reality is that human beings create killing, ideologies, whether religious or political, are conscripted to justify this. There is nothing in Christian Scripture which in any way justifies the Inquisition and indeed at the time there were huge forces from within Christianity itself which opposed the Inquisition (check your facts here, please). Christianity may have been abused and corrupted an manipulated by malevolent authorities but that does not invalidate the writings' original spirit. Similarly you are ignoring all the religious people who have done good in the world and stood against religious persecution. Ghandi and Martin Luther King, for instance, were deeply religious men who fought to set people free by peaceful means. Then there was Pastor Niemoller who resisted the Nazis. St Bernard of Clairvaux and the Spiritual Franciscans who stood out against the Inquisition. The Falung Gong movement in China which peacefully resists Communist persecution. The Buddhist protestors against the Vietnam War. THe list goes on.

Those who argue that atheism causes wars etc are as misguided as people like you who believe religion causes wars. PEOPLE cause wars with their greed, hatred, ambition and fear. Everything else is just used. The Napoleonic Wars - not religious. The Seven Years War - not religious. The American War of Independence - not religious. WW1 - not religious. WW2 - not religious. Vietnam - not religious. For the last 300 years the bulk of wars and killing have NOT been in the name of religion but in the name of territory, race, nationality, empire and power.

So wake up pally! The fault is in OURSELVES. Its too simplistic to say either religion or atheism causes killing. You need to open your mind as much as the people you are attacking.

Answer 7

No matter what name you or religion or cause you kill under, I believe the real realize is power. It may start out as a "cause" but the bloodlust of power becomes too real and too powerful. Power is always the answer.

Answer 8

But you see...thats a Christian's point about not believing in God.

We believe you find yourselves in "Charge" and it's over "Power."

Atheist's use the word "reality" alot, although their "reality" seem is based on sheer coincedences and unlkely events...

It's a POWER trip....Your smarter then us...thats your claim...The Genesis story makes no sense..but the your's does? Not really....See what I mean...

Your on a POWER TRIP...Just like that crazy atheist...

Here I got a compromise...stop using "The crusades" (Which I have seen WAY more of on R/S) and we wnt through Stalin in your face?

Answer 9

Atheists: You do realize that some of us Christians realize this and do NOT defend the Crusades one iota and are just as apalled by it?

*edit* Father K has an excellent reference below

Answer 10

It doesn't matter. You're blaming the victim, saying that Mao et al. only killed still BECAUSE of religion. You're a sick puppy...

The Crusade et al. were not done in the name of God. Nowhere does Christ tell us to do these things. they were done for power purposes by a bent church.

Incidently, I am a communist Christian. Marxism/Leninism is against religion.