If someone does not believe any scripture, how would you convince them there is a deity?

Question

Assume that any quotation to scripture will be counterproductive and futile because the someone thinks they are all human-fabricated fables (torah-bible-qur'an-upanishads).

So far the answers are fun, some of you assume I must be a sinner, others that I am a christian, others think that even asking how one would prove a deity is nonsense.

I just want to know what arguments people have and judge their mertis fro myself. Lord (if he/she exists) knows I am not trying to convince anyone of god's existence or non-existence.

I really liked the answer about consulting history, but that just proves, at best, that jesus lived and people believed what they were told -- the same argument could be made for muhammed and his religion. But it is an honest and thoughtful response, a rare thing on these Yahoo fora.

Answer 1

First . . . let’s throw out the Bible. It’s simple self-validating, and can’t be used to prove the existence of Jesus. Let’s go back to around 95, before there was a “Bible.”

Here's the fact - Jesus, a man, was executed by the Romans. The Roman Historian Josephus said so. The followers of Jesus are also mentioned several other times in Roman history. The Romans executed a few more people than the state of Texas, and Jesus was one of those criminals killed by the government.

For 30 years after his death, people walked around the Roman empire and the rest of the ancient world saying they knew Jesus, or they saw the resurrected spirit of Jesus, the Christ. Many of these people were executed, burned, crucified, eaten by lions, or died in some nasty way.

Around 50 years after the death and resurrection of Jesus, people were organizing house churches, and the hierarchy of the modern Catholic Church was forming.

The first few generations of Jesus followers had no recognition from the government. They weren’t Jews, who were recognized, and they refused to worship the Roman gods. They refused to go along with the government and instead they were willing to be executed for worshiping the only God they believed in.

Why? Why were they willing to die, rather than even pretend to worship Roman gods?

Tradition tells us that every one of Jesus' apostles was executed just as he was. (This isn’t in the Bible, but is in early Christian and later Roman writings). You would think that killing the first believers would have stopped the movement from growing. Why didn’t it?

Roman coliseums under the Emperor Nero were filled with dead followers of Jesus, BEFORE the Bible was written and within enough time for their grandfathers and great grandfathers to have heard Jesus or his apostles and disciples first, second, or third hand.

No amount of torture, no painful death we can’t begin to imagine, would make them renounce their belief. If they had denied Christ 1,955 years ago, then the Jesus-cult would have simply died off, like nearly every other religion of the region. If they had denied their story about the so-called-Christ, then their fantasy would have died with them. But they didn’t deny Christ. They suffered and died, rather than deny Christ. And so the story grew.

The indisputable fact from Roman history has nothing at all to do with the Bible – followers of Jesus were executed by the government.

This all happened before the Bible was written down, but while the stories of the Bible were being transmitted orally.

What was "wrong" with these people, that they claimed they met a man who performed miracles in the name of his father, God?

What was wrong with the hundreds of people who claim they saw the risen Christ?

So when you look at history, ALL of the history of Christianity and the time it was born, it comes down to the people, the eye-witnesses of Christ, who are the very foundation of Christianity. Their faith was strong enough to convince others, because they knew Jesus the man, and Christ the resurrected God. They told people, who told people, who told people, who told people. Zack Finch told me, and I’m telling you. The Bible has nothing to do with it. Christ lived. Christ died. Christ was resurrected. Christ will come again.

The tradition goes back to the day the resurrected Christ ascended into heaven, because it’s true. People witnessed it.

Today, 9-11, many Muslims around the world deny that Muslims were involved with 9-11. Within a dozen years, the truth will be completely clouded over in many Islamic communities. But the truth is the truth.

People don’t believe the Bible today, because people didn’t believe the story of Christ when it happened. But there were enough witnesses, who told other people, who told other people, and the truth lasted for 1955 years. Christ lived. Christ died. Christ was resurrected. Christ will come again.

Godspeed.

Answer 2

Why would you want to convince anyone of such a ridiculous faerie tale anyway? If you have already accepted the fact that all scripture is just human-fabricated fables then why not take the next step into the real world in the 21st century, wake up, and realize religion was made up for stupid, ignorant, simple people who needed simple explanations for things they couldn't possibly understand.

Answer 3

I despise questions like this. Why do CHRISTIANS always think it's their place in life to FORCE their beliefs on others who have their own beliefs?

Haven't you heard "Judge not lest ye be judged?"

When you JUDGE someone by saying their beliefs are wrong, you are breaking your own rules and putting yourselves above YOUR GOD.

THINK about it!

Christianity is NOT the ONLY path in the world and it is NOT right for everyone.

Back off and be TOLERANT of people!

Answer 4

If that person is versed in history, like myself, and can rip the falsity of the bible apart cover to cover, then you don'tstand a chance of converting anything. Be careful, should it make too much sense you might be the one changing where you hang out on sundays.

and CJ if dead people were walking around telling me that hell was real, you had best believe every atheist this side of the moon would repent. But ummm... yeah, that's not going to happen.

Answer 5

'Logic and common' sense are always a good way to go, but I guess that is pretty much a non-starter in this case. Anyway, what would you be doing trying to convince people of some all-powerful deity? Shouldn't the all-powerful deity be able to do something like that? You'd think so.
.

Answer 6

I have believed in God all my life and have told many about the grace and salvation we get from understanding Jesus as being our savior, but I have never convinced anyone, thats not in our job discription, thank God.

Answer 7

What am I now, the Holy Spirit?

Not my job dude. That's how we ended up with all un-believers professing to be believers. They were 'talked' into it by someone who helped them into an emotional 'decision' for Christ. Like He needs their vote. It's not a democracy, it's a kingdom. You must follow His rules and requirements, humble yourself before Him, lay down your arms, and surrender. The paradox lies in the fact that you can't do this, unless He allows you to.

That should be enough to hurt your head for the rest of the day.

Answer 8

I do not believe any of the scriptures, but I do believe in my gods, but I would never try to convince anyone else of this, they must choose their own path to walk.

Answer 9

Why on earth do you assume one needs to have belief in scripture to believe in God? Adam and Eve didn't have any scripture! Nor did Cain and Able, or Methusela, or Enoch, or Noah and millions of others. Yet they believed in God, who has a way of making himself known to those who seek to know him. Nobody has to convince anybody.

Answer 10

I believe in Deity, not scripture. You assume way too much.