Is the Trinity a heathen concept?

Question

I read a bit on this and understand that conventional Christian thinking holds the God-head as being the Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. That God, Jesus and the Spirit are three entities co-existing as one sentient Divinity, but that the God-head is three conscious elements. Trinity.

I struggle with that.

The way I see it, there is God (Yahweh/Jehovah). He is the Big Boss. He SENDS the Arch Angel (the only one), Michael, to be his Son on Earth (Yeshua) , to deliver a message, die, deliver a message and RETURN to Heaven. Jesus is not God. He is God's SON on Earth. Jesus recognises Yaweh as his Father and that Jesus does His Father's bidding.

The Spirit is the representation of the Power. The power that God wields, it is a tool.

So, I have found references to the Trinity in older religions. Was the Trinity as a concept picked up to pacify and integrate older religions?

If so, does that not undermine a lot of the Churches teachings?

Sean F - I don't wish to appear as anything. By birth Cof E but I have never been drawn to Church. I am a 'Christian Researcher'. I want the core truth, the centre of the onion. There are layers and layers built up by Man which many take as being truth. I believe the true message and instruction is far simpler that we are told. It is a complete minefield, a maze the size of the comos itself. So much interpretation and strongly held opinions based not on purity but on other peoples or organisations badly formed teachings.

All organisations develop agendas, power bases, wealth, position.

I would love the raw data.

Answer 1

The History of the Trinity (Encyclopedia Quotes)

The New Catholic Encyclopedia: "The formulation 'one God in three Persons' was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century. But it is precisely this formulation that has first claim to the title the Trinitarian dogma. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective." - Vol. XIV, p. 299, (1967).

The New Encyclopedia Britannica: "Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such, appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: 'Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord' -- Deut. 6:4
. . . The [trinity] doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies . . . By the end of the 4th century . . . the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since." -- Micropædia, Vol. X, p. 126. (1976)

Encyclopedia Americana: "Speculative thought began to analyze the divine nature until in the 4th century an elaborate theory of a threefoldness in God appears. In this Nicene or Athanasian form of thought God is said to consist of three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, all equally eternal, powerful and glorious." - , 1944, v. 6, p. 619, "Christianity".

Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics, Hastings: "At first the Christian faith was not Trinitarian .... It was not so in the apostolic and sub-apostolic ages, as reflected in the NT [New Testament] and other early Christian writings."

Encyclopedia Americana: "As we have seen, Christianity inherited the monotheism of Israel, but gradually developed it by the elaboration of the doctrine of the Trinity." - p. 619, v. 6, 1941.

The Illustrated Bible Dictionary (Protestant) says: "The word Trinity is not found in the Bible .... It did not find a place formally in the theology of the church till the 4th century .... Although scripture does not give us a formulated doctrine of the Trinity, it contains all the elements out of which theology has constructed the doctrine."

To read MUCH more about the history of the Trinity, see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/120

Answer 2

Not at all, the problem is that you are centralizing your knowledge in so theoretical way and we are speaking about metaphysics.

Jesus return to the father and with the Holy spirit makes one cause they lead between the 3 the universe, I don't think that that is so estrange or difficult to understand.

Is not a concept to make happy other religions, the star of Salomon reunite the 3 upper points with the 3 lower points that symbolizes, Satan oposing the father, Lucifer opposing Jesus and Belcebub opposing the Holy Spirit.

Are 3 forces, one related with creation, the other with love and family, the other with spirit and spirituality, then opposite concepts, destruction for Satan, Temptation, sex and pleasures for Lucifer and Torture and suffering for the last one.

Learn more Metaphysics cause is really where the secrets lies and forget about the "Discovery channel" concept of religion.

Thank you.

Answer 3

Elohim is plural. In Genesis God said in our image. There are loads of other problems with your view. The fathers bidding bit was because Jesus came under Gods authority and power as a man. Which he had to do to meet the criteria for our salvation.

Christianity was so named to call the followers, Christ ones. This does not mean that pagan religions out dated belief in God. Before Jesus people still believed in the messiah to
come. Nothing pre dates this. Old religions have actually taken bits from belief in one God. And you may also note that where people worshipped God they left no carvings nothing except piles of stones and alters. Many of which have been declared pagan sites.

Interesting question though. Apart from the bit that suggests Christians haven't thought about it. That was childish. This is a very deep subject that needs study not silly comments.

Many of your views can correlate with the Jehovah witness view point. This is a man created organisation that does not give Jesus his correct place as God. Michael was a created being a different part in the order of creation.

Answer 4

There is no such thing as the Trinity, This is largest lie that Satan uses to keep people from knowing who the True God is, if he can do this, he's got you.

He has cleverly kept a large proportion of mankind in darkness by means of false religion, making them think that they are serving God. Lacking in accurate knowledge of God and in love for truth, they may be attracted by mystical and emotional religious services or be impressed by powerful works.

“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matthew 24:36) How do these words confirm that Jesus is not Almighty God?

Jesus says that the Father knows more than the Son does. If Jesus were part of Almighty God, however, he would know the same facts as his Father. So, then, the Son and the Father cannot be equal. Yet, some will say: ‘Jesus had two natures. Here he speaks as a man.’ But even if that were so, what about the holy spirit? If it is part of the same God as the Father, why does Jesus not say that it knows what the Father knows?

1st of all Jesus said: He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.

Jesus’ being called the “only-begotten Son” does not mean that the other spirit creatures produced were not God’s sons, for they are called sons as well. However, by virtue of his being the sole direct creation of his Father, the firstborn Son was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by Jehovah through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Jehovah’s “only-begotten Son” in a particular sense,

Jesus is also “Mighty God” and “Eternal Father.” This does not mean that he usurps the authority and position of Jehovah, who is “God our Father.” (2 Corinthians 1:2) “He [Jesus] gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God.” (Philippians 2:6) He is called Mighty God, not Almighty God. Jesus never thought of himself as God Almighty, for he spoke of his Father as “the only true God,” that is, the only God who should be worshiped. (John 17:3;


Rev. 1:1; 3:14, RS: “The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him, why did God have to give the revelation to Jesus, if he is God? .

Does the Bible teach that none of those who are said to be included in the Trinity is greater or less than another, that all are equal, that all are almighty? Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

John 14:28, RS: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

1 Cor. 11:3, RS: “I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.” (Clearly, then, Christ is not God, and God is of superior rank to Christ. It should be noted that this was written about 55 C.E., some 22 years after Jesus returned to heaven.

A person who is really seeking to know the truth about God is not going to search the Bible hoping to find a text that he can construe as fitting what he already believes. He wants to know what God’s Word itself says. He may find some texts that he feels can be read in more than one way, but when these are compared with other Biblical statements on the same subject their meaning will become clear. It should be noted at the outset that most of the texts used as “proof” of the Trinity actually mention only two persons, not three; so even if the Trinitarian explanation of the texts were correct, these would not prove that the Bible teaches the Trinity.

Answer 5

You are correct. The concept of triune gods can be found in Egyptian and Assyrian culture ... as well as others. The New Catholic Encyclpedia itself says that it did not become part of church doctrine until the 4th Century.

Answer 6

Wicca has a "sort" of a trinity, the triple goddess: the maiden, the mother and the crone.

What's ridiculous, though, is that christianity preaches monotheism, yet already in the very basis their god is made of three parts. Then they have an evil being - satan. Then they have all the saints and angels and demons and higher and lesser divine beings... monotheism my ***. And idolatry, too.

Answer 7

You appear to be a Baptist, Methodist or other form of non-Catholic Christian. As a Catholic the trinity makes perfect sense to me as God is omniscient and omnipresent and of course most importantly transcendent (meaning He is above and beyond and separate from the universe and therefore He must surely be beyond its laws) He is also beyond doubt and question so if He claimed Jesus as Himself and His Son then we are not right to argue. This argument is one of the oldest in the book and is what caused the schism between various forms of Christianity.

Answer 8

I am Heathen and we don't have a trinity.
Now the Egyptian Pagans did. Horus, Osiris, and Isis were generally worshiped as a trinity in the form of the Eye of Horus. I'm not sure about other pagan faiths.
By the way, Heathen is another title for Asatru, a tradition of paganism. ;)

Answer 9

Yes you are correct.

"Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness." What do words like "us" and "our" mean? Obviously God was not muttering to himself. There was someone closely associated “with” Jehovah during creation. - John 1:1

Answer 10

Whatever is of God, Satan imitates - in order to confuse! Don't you think Satan knows far more about God than we humans know? What better way to confuse humans than to concoct myriad replicas of who God is, what his Word is, what his Church is etc... Hence paganism. Myriad triads of heathen gods abound. Myraid scriptures abound. Myriad churches that claim to be the True One.

God has revealed his true nature in the Bible. It starts in Genesis with 'Let US make man in OUR image...' progresses to Christ as the Word, who was with God in the beginning and WAS God (don't let the NWT fool you). If Jesus had been created by God, Paul would have used a specific Greek word that means 'created'. He chose to use a different word that means 'pre-eminent, priority'. The Bible nowhere says Jesus was created (except in the NWT). The culmination in Revelation is that this Word shares the same heavenly throne as the Father and receives the same worship of heaven's throngs. The Trinity has always been. Pagan imitations are but corruptions designed to put us off. Don't be put off!