Believers in transubstantiation: Would you agree to have your stomach contents analysed ?

Question

Analysis of stomach contents can unequivocally prove whether human blood and flesh are present. Would you be willing to put your faith to the test and have your stomach pumped and the contents analysed?

Suzanne: The transubstantiation is supposed to take place inside the person receiving the sacrament, so testing the wafer and wine would be premature.

Somewhat Enlightened: That proves nothing - only that the vessel contains something which might be flesh. It could very easily be a hoax or a lie. A scientific test conducted in front of impartial witnesses is what I am talking about.

Suzanne: I stand corrected - sort of. The meaning of 'presence' is ambiguous.

This is getting off the beaten track a bit, but if the qualities of flesh and blood are not physical and cannot be measured, but are the 'underlying reality' of flesh and blood, then by the same measure I can take a lump of iron and claim I have transmuted it into gold with alchemy, and nobody could dispute me.

Answer 1

You need to read up on the philosophy behind transubstantiation.

There is the "stuff" of the world: substance.

There are the things that we detect through our senses and instruments: accidents.

The doctrine behind transubstantiation is that the substance changes but the accidents don't. As it is only the accidents that analysis would detect no test would ever confirm or disconfirm that transubstantiation had taken place. Transubstantiation can be proved (or disproved) about as well as we can figure out whether Schrodinger's cat is dead or not.

[Edit] Bars of iron into gold. Yes, this is it precisely.

Answer 2

I am a believer in the 'theory of transubstantiation' ... and no, I wouldn't want to have my stomach pumped and the contents analyzed. I don't believe that the wine and wafer literally change to the body and blood of Christ ... but I do believe that they 'become' the body and blood' IN MY MIND in a way that I can 'physically feel' in my body.
Let's 'divide' it into the 'two substances' ... when I take that 'sip' of wine, I can 'feel the heat' as it goes from my mouth to my stomach ... but I can also feel the 'spirit' throughout my WHOLE body. I know what kind of wine is used, and even the 'label' ... I know about the water that is added on the altar, and where that comes from (it's 'holy water' from the baptismal font, in fact). It does 'change' when it's 'in my body' ... perhaps not 'physically in makeup' but 'spiritually' ... and the same sort of thing happens when I take the 'wafer' at our Cathedral, or the 'bread' that is used at our local parish church. There is much more to this 'transubstantiation' than 'changing the physical makeup' ... and there is no way to 'test' my 'spirit' and the changes that take place in that spirit when I take the Eucharist. (That is the Catholic version of 'Communion.')
What happens is a 'miracle' ... whether or not it can be 'proven' by 'pumping the stomach' is MOOT because the 'transubtantiation' can take place in two directions ... as soon as the stomach is 'pumped' the 'body and blood' would 'change back' to simple wine and bread ... and THAT is a 'total miracle' as far as I am concerned.

Answer 3

You don't get Transubstantiation at all.
The "outer sign" (species et accidens),which is not changed,is digested not the sustance of Christ which is "eaten yet never consummed(Div Lit John Chrysostom)
Transubstantiation teaches that there is no chemical change but that the "whole substance"or the "inner reality" is changed into the "whole substance" of ChristWho is trully,actually and really present "Body,Blood[human] soul and Divinity".
The Real Presence remains as long as the chemistry of the bread and wine remain unchanged or unspoiled
Check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraphs1373-1381.
Belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is the original Christian Eucharistic belief and the rejection of it defies John 6
God bless

Answer 4

I'm sure that if my stomach contents were analyzed they would show a wafer made of bread without yeast, or whatever they're made of. The teaching of transubstantiation does not say that the appearance of the bread changes.

Here is an article that explains it if you read down far enough.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9307iron.asp

This is the paragraph where it starts.

The revealed doctrine expressed by the term transubstantiation is in no way conditioned by the scholastic system of philosophy. Any philosophy that distinguishes adequately between the appearances of a thing and the thing itself may be harmonized with the doctrine of transubstantiation. Right thinking demands that one makes a distinction between what a thing is and what it has. That is part of ordinary common speaking. we say, for example, that this is iron, but it maybe cold, hot, black, red, white, solid, liquid, or vapor. The qualities, actions, and reactions do not exist in themselves; they are in something. We call that something the substance. It makes a thing what it is. When we talk about transubstantiation we are using the word substance in that sense. It is unfair for people who do not want to accept this doctrine to invent their own definition of substance and then to tell us we are wrong.

Answer 5

I'm only chiming in here to correct the OP. The transubstantiation happens *during* the Mass, not after consumption. The priest spends about the last third of the service preparing for this, leading up to communion. Just before communion begins, the last thing the priest does is raise the cup of wine and the platter of wafers and says, "This is Jesus, the lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world. Happy are we who are called to his supper." Note ... "This IS Jesus," not "This will become Jesus after you consume it." You can thumbs-down me all you want, but that's how it works.

Granted, I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

Answer 6

Techically, you should be able to test the wafer and wine for DNA, shouldn't you?

EDIT: You appear to be incorrect, Dharmanator.

"The Eucharistic presence of Christ begins at the moment of the consecration and endures as long as the Eucharistic species subsist. Christ is present whole and entire in each of the species and whole and entire in each of their parts, in such a way that the breaking of the bread does not divide Christ."

See # 1377 here: http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt2sect2chpt1art3.htm

Answer 7

I'd agree to have my stomach contents analyzed. So far today I've had three coffee with two sugar each and powdered skim milk. Frosted corn flakes with soy milk, and one banana.

Answer 8

Good luck in finding anyone to participate. Even if they did, the catholic church would sweep the results "under the rug".

Answer 9

yes.
http://www.acfp2000.com/Miracles/eucharistic.html

Now, what is an appropriate name to call you?
SCEPTIC?

Answer 10

I suppose if I were a canibal I would have to pass.