"Philosophers agreed long ago that it is fruitless for believers and atheists to argue with each other. This is because they interpret *everything* differently. In order to argue, there must be some common ground, so that one of the participants can say 'Aha! If you concede x, then you must also concede y!' Atheists and believers never find an x they can agree upon. The argument can never begin, because each sees *everything* from his own point of view" (98).
Thomas Cathcart and Danial Klein. "Plato and a Platypus"
I think it's a good point, but I don't agree that intelligent debate is impossible - just rare. What do you think?
2007-09-10 16:09:30 · 18 answers · asked by eV 5 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
No.
I agree with the quote. People who have seriously thought about religion end up either disbelieving or believing on faith alone understanding that there is no hard evidence for that faith, but not needing it.
There is no common x to argue over. Some say there is no proof so no belief. Others say they believe without proof.
You can not have an intelligent discussion with idiots who think that there is proof of god's existence, or people that think that ther is proof of no god. There is a common x in this case, but the dogma of the entrenched positions does not allow of a logical deduction on y, so you end up with an argument rather than a debate.
2007-09-10 16:22:25 · answer #1 · answered by Simon T 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Yes, this quote is basically correct...it's a fruitless debate...because the argument is based off of basic points, which are foundation views...
To the Deists, God is one of the foundations of the universe...to most Atheists, it's an impossibility for Deity to exist, the laws of the universe will not allow it...to each, the viewpoint is a cornerstone of their entire view on reality, and it's not just a matter of conceding a debate point.
Between the two, it's a never ending debate, one cries apples, and the other oranges, and never the twain shall meet.
2007-09-10 23:18:00 · answer #2 · answered by Hatir Ba Loon 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
I don't know about a debate, but I think it's possible to have an intelligent conversation where a theist says something that he believes in, and then atheist says, "Ah, I understand. Now this is my point of view." It's possible to see something from your own point of view and understand the other point of view as well.
Take myself. I am an atheist, and I have never been raised with any religion (AT ALL. I've never attended church, and I've been in a temple once for a bar mitz vah. My mother and father are shintoist and buddhist by association, but are not very religious. My mother says she believes in A god, but I don't know about my dad.) However I am very tolerant of all religions, and in fact I'm very interested in them. I happen to come from a very Jewish town (anywhere from 80% to 95% Jewish) so "Christian Trivia" intrigues me...because I have close to NO knowledge of Christianity...
I don't know if that answers your question, but there's my answer.
Also, I think there are some things that atheists and theists can agree upon, for example, "All people should treat others with kindness and respect." I'm not saying all atheists and theists will agree upon this statement, but I know at least one atheist and theist that would...anyway, I agree with this statement, and that all people, religious or not, should tolerate all other kinds of people, religious or not.
2007-09-10 23:19:30 · answer #3 · answered by travwell 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Atheists argue with logic and science and religion argues with Bronze Age Holy Books.
Who's right?
Maybe atheists should be more subjective and theists more objective or the debate will go on and on and on.
2007-09-10 23:13:24 · answer #4 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
I think there is one idea we can agree upon: that is how to treat your fellow man.
Theists say we get morals from religion, while Atheists, on the other hand, say it's a product of evolution.
Now we can argue about that.
2007-09-10 23:14:06 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
I agree with you. It's nearly impossible to have a real debate between atheists and Christians. And even when there is a good debate, it never really leads anywhere.
2007-09-10 23:13:28 · answer #6 · answered by Claire 4 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Yes, how can you serves two masters?
You either hates one and loves the other or vice versa!
So never shall the twain be met. End of discussion!
The word of God warned us against vain and fruitless exercise of energy debating with scoffers and deceivers in the last days.
The Word of God never stop believers from confessing their Faith and The Truth.
Unbelievers are upset with The Truth but they take their frustration on the true Believers and often times attacks and justified their actions by highlighting the hypocritical and plastic pseudo religious Christianity and Churchianity of our days.
2007-09-10 23:21:57 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 2⤋
I think I understand alot about the x's and y's of Christianity just fine. I don't believe them however. But, I am a former minister, so, maybe I'm jaded. I also think there is something more than nothing, so the atheists are kind of wary of me, however, it is nothing more than believing that I, myself, am not god, and that I can admit that I don't know everything.
2007-09-10 23:15:49 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
I think it is fairly impossible to have an intelligent debate on this topic in this setting - in the real world, I think it can be done
2007-09-10 23:25:34 · answer #9 · answered by Evieve 5 · 0⤊ 0⤋
I tried to explain this in one of my answers. I think God has a reason for atheists. Several have given me some good insight and helped my faith to be stronger. God works in mysterious ways.
2007-09-10 23:33:48 · answer #10 · answered by Heart of man 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋