Will you please...?

Question

...show me where Jesus specifically said God was triune and that he was God the Son, the second person of the trinity? I already know that the word "trinity" is not in the Bible, but if the trinity concept is a Christian teaching, there should be clear evidence of it in what Jesus taught his followers.

Pollyman, even if John 1:1 did read "The Word is God," how is that evidence of a trinity? So put your bigotry for the NWT aside and answer the question.

Jamie, how does your comment prove a trinity?

CJ, if Jesus alone is God, that is NOT a trinity. You need THREE persons to try and prove the trinity, not ONE.

Archy, Jesus did claim to be the son of God. See John 10:36.

Brian F, where does it say at Matt. 3:16 that God is made up of 3 co-equal, co-eternal "persons"?

Jerome, not one of your "proof" scriptures says anything about a trinity. Most of them don't even have 3 persons in them.

Jerome, most of what you say shows how confused you are. Jesus NEVER broke the Sabbath.

jesusis king, you need to look up the definition of the trinity. If you hadou would know that all persons of the trinity ARE co-equal.

Godislove, if you know the answer, why can't you give it to me from YOUR Bible?

Answer 1

o
EMMANUEL;that being interpreted as GOD is with us
the trinity is GOD the FATHER who sent HIS SON(EMMANUEL; that being interpreted as GOD is with us)
and left us with HIS HOLY GHOST
HE
has
RISEN

Answer 2

There is no verse in the Bible that clearly says that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are God in 3 persons of the same substance and who are coequal and coeternal. Nowhere does it say exactly that God is one in three persons. Even the verses 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 28:19 don't directly say that God is a Trinity.
If u examine very carefully the Gospels and the book of Acts u will never read any direct mention of the Trinity, or the fact that God exists in three persons. Never. Jesus never mentioned about the Trinity, neither does the Apostle Paul. However, Jesus did mention that God the Father, He Himself and the Holy Spirit bring about the salvation of people. So they are united in some sense - not in being but in purpose for humanity. Also, when Jesus said He and the Father 'are one' it meant one in terms of spiritual unity just as Jesus prayed in John 15 that Christians will be 'one' just as 'we (Jesus Christ and God the Father) are one'.
But the Bible does say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and is divine. It also talks about the Holy Spirit. So u have God the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit and they do exist. However as humans we don't understand God and in our nature we are prone to try to explain God. That was why in the Council of Constantinople in AD 381 the Christian leaders made a mistake by classifying and declaring all three as God.

Answer 3

Jehovah's Witnesses in 1969 Kingdom published their interlinear translation of the Greek Scriptures. The Watchtower has literally painted themselves in a corner with its distortion in the New World Translation of John 1:1. In their "New Kingdom Interlinear Translation" of John 1:1, they render the Greek text on the left side of the page more accurately: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward the God and god was the Word." However across the page in the right column, the "New World Translation" has, "In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God and the Word was A god." So they say the Greek states it this way, but we translate it another way. They subtly attempt to demote Christ to some kind of demigod, with a little g. (mighty and Jehovah the almighty). Isaiah 45:22, "For I am God and there is no other." The existing manuscripts of the New Testament were all written in capital letters (uncials) so there are no distinctions in this lettering and no reason to change to what they have in the NWT.

Answer 4

Believe me, people have already. Are you still trying to prove a point? There's a reason why you keep trying to prove a point. It's because you're not proving anything.

The Bible never says "rapture", "atheist", "incarnation", "divinity", or even "Bible" either... so what's your point?

1 John 5:7 So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One.

1 Timothy 3:16

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

So... is Jesus God in the flesh of a man?

Philippians 2:5-7
John 20:28
John 14:7-13
Colossians 2:9
1 John 5:20
Titus 2:13
Luke 1:35

If that's not clear enough... you need better eyes and comprehension. And no, "ONE" does NOT mean "agreement." "Agreement" rarely shows up in the New Testament; and the word "agree" in Greek is "sumphOneO". The word "one" is "heis". Stop twisting the meaning. You take every other scripture literal but not this one?

Here's a link to a ENGLISH/GREEK INTERLINEAR BIBLE so you can read these verses: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm

Keiichi -- John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.

John 14:7
If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

John 14:9
Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.

There are three that bear record. Which "three" bear witness? How do they bear witness? Why three? What are they in "agreement" with and why is only "three" in agreement? Shouldn't everyone else who is Christian be in agreement also?

UPDATE

Your expressions of Jesus being "the chip from the block" proves my points. Jesus (a man) is not God; but a part of God is Jesus (a man). You have God - the almighty and powerful eternal creator. Then you have Jesus -- God as a human (non-eternal, non-powerful [the power came from his Father]). And God's Spirit (The Holy Spirit) -- Not a human but a Spirit form of God actively working. God can definitely create a part of him into a human but a human cannot turn himself into God. They are of the same being but are individual. God is God. Jesus is God as a HUMAN not as a God. Phillipians 2:5-7 explains what God did. He created a part of himself into a non-eternal HUMAN. Humans die. Jesus was Not GOD but a part of GOD was a HUMAN.

TIK of TOTG -- I read those and none of those prove jack-squat. It doesn't even explain anything very well. Did God or Jesus create us? Let's see what Malachi 2:10 says: "Has not one God created us?"
John 1:18 (ESV) ...the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known. (so what "God" who is at the Father's side is this talking about?)

NAS -- the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 5:18 -- This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (Are we equal to God for calling him our own Father?) This is different than you think. He was claiming to be more....

Also... you can find "God the Father" in many places in the Bible. Why does it have to say God the Father? If it says The Father we'd know who it's talking about; or even "Father" capitalized.

Keiichi -- Satan didn't just want to be equal to God he wanted to be greater than God. And none of you JWs, especially KASHIF E seem to understand what a HUMAN is. Everything you try "denying Jesus as God" is off!! Jesus is not GOD he's a HUMAN. It's the HUMAN of God that is non-eternal, can die, doesn't know the hour. You keep trying to say Jesus is the Father. HE'S NOT!! GOD is JESUS as the SON. Stop trying to make two Gods here. Jesus is not God. God is Jesus (a man) not another GOD!!! No one has seen the father (you left this part out) except Jesus. How can a man see God? Answer this: If God can do anything can he die? Can he create himself into a human? Can he be in two places at one time? How about three? How about everywhere all the time? If you said no to any of these then you're saying he's not Omnipotent or Omnipresent.

Answer 5

I can't say enough how many Jehovah's Witnesses get this concept confused- as confused as a religion that is actually created by an occultists.

No where does Jesus say this- the term 'trinity' refers to God the father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

IT DOES NOT SAY THAT ALL THREE ARE EQUAL.

Answer 6

Isa. 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5-6, 18, 22; 1 Cor. 8:4. Father is God: 2 Peter 1:17; Phil. 2:11. Son is God: John 1:1; John 8:58; Rom. 9:5; Phil. 2:6-9; Heb. 1:8. Holy Spirit is God: Acts 5:3-4.
i am however hesitant to post this .... i see u argue with everyone who posts a valid response. it is one thing to desire enlightenment and accept ones views, it is another to post a question just to peddle your own agenda. i find it clever that you do not identify yourself and your belief. i know from studying the very point you are arguing that you are in fact a JEHOVA'S WTINESS! and that is fine, but let your true intention of this question be known! when i ask someone a question, i honestly care about their answers. it is to be exposed to something other than your own, i have even given 'best answer' points to people i don't agree with. research me and see.

Answer 7

Of course, no one has "specifically" shown you the "clear evidence" of (not just the word, but) the "trinity concept" being in the Bible or in Jesus' teachings.

Instead, Trinitarians have to resort to their same old 'proof-texts'. The scriptures that the Trinitarians have provided to your question are fully examined and debunked by clicking the link directly under it.

John 10:30
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/151

1 John 5:7
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/152

1 Timothy 3:16
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/139

Philippians 2:5-7
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/143

John 20:28
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/148

Colossians 2:9
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/163

1 John 5:20
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/178

Titus 2:13
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JWquestions_and_answers_archives/message/134


As you suggested, since the nature of God is such a vital Bible teaching (Jn. 17:3), "clear evidence" of the trinity should be RAMPANT throughout the Bible IF it were true. And yet:

1) Nowhere in the Bible is there found a vision, dream, or clear description in scripture wherein God is shown as more than one person.

2) Nowhere in scripture is God ever described using the word "three".

3) Nowhere are there any clear, undisputed scriptures where Jesus is called "God the Son," (equal to those declaring "God, the Father" – Ro. 15:6; 1 Cor. 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; 2 Cor. 11:31; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:2; etc.).

and,

4) Nowhere are there any equally clear, undisputed scriptures where the Holy Spirit is called "God, the Holy Spirit".

Answer 8

In Luke Chapter 3 verse 21 he says Now it came to pass, when all the people were baptized, that Jesus also being baptized and praying, heaven was opened; 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape, as a dove upon him; and a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased....
There right there. Father son and Holy Spirit. The Blessed Trinity.

Answer 9

Please read John 15: verses 1,2, FATHER, husbandman, some translations say gardener, the VINE, Jesus, Jesus was the one speaking, BRANCHES, Holy Spirit., Notice Jesus said I AM the true VINE, Now how about John 3:16, For GOD so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, that who soever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life. Now, look at verse 4 of chapter 15, Abide in me as I am in you. All of chapter 15 is awesome reading for the serious person wanting to learn about Christ, In John 3:3 Jesus said a man must be born again to see the Kingdom of Heaven, would you like to see Heaven someday, in order to do so you must be saved or born again, you can be right now, just say this simple prayer of faith, and salvation will come to your heart, Dear Jesus, I know and confess that I am sinner in need of salvation. I believe you died on a cross at calvery and arose from the grave to wash away my sins, I ask you right now to come into my heart and save me, I pray this Prayer believing in the name of Jesus Amen. If you prayed this prayer with a sincere heart you are now a child of God, rejoice that your name is written in the Lambs book of Life. If you have any questions just send me an email, God Bless YOU!!

Answer 10

Interesting to note Scholars acknowledge 1 John 5:7 words were not originally in the Bible but were added much later. Most modern translations rightly omit this spurious verse.

What is in the bible is when Jesus said "No one has seen God at any time", John 1:18.

Jesus told his followers the first begotten son is there to declare him, not to be him.

John 6:46 - "except the one who is from God"
Jesus tells his followers that he in not God but rather he was sent by his father to declare him.

In fact Hebrews 1:3 says that Jesus was the "exact representation" of the Father. A representation is not the same as the original, but an exact representation is as good as the real thing. That is why Jesus said that "if you have seen me you have seen the Father," because he was just like Jehovah in every respect—'a chip off the old block'—as the expression goes.

Comment made: Jesus is God as a HUMAN not as a God.

Unfortunately that still conflicts with John 1:18. Regardless if God has powers or does not have powers while on Earth, Regardless if Jesus is “of” God or “piece” of God, John records Jesus saying no one has seen God period.

The assumption is God sheds apart of himself to earth which turns human. Yet the quoted verse six of the second chapter of Philippians says Jesus was in the form of God as any heavenly creature would be. Satan himself was in the form of God decided that he SHOULD equal to God and that put us in the situation we are now in.

The trinity is never ending. It starts with three parts and then encompasses everything. Adam is an image of God as Jesus was thus making him part of a trinity. Jesus told the Jews “they are gods” make them part of the trinity. Jesus said his disciples are part of him making them a part of a trinity. That makes everything God which is idolatry.

Yet in the end as Christians we try to look to the past to prevent ourselves to repeat mistakes. Israel worship God in trinity form and brought destruction upon them selves, hopefully we will learn from them and not doom ourselfs to repeat history.

Comment: HUMAN of God

Philippians 2:7 makes it clear that in order for Jesus to become a man he completely divested himself of his heavenly nature. Jesus was no god-man; no demigod; no materialized archangel. Jesus was a mere man, albeit a perfect one. And as such Jehovah anointed him to become a spirit son again upon his death as a man.

Simply put when God remade Jesus he was formed into a man. It is not possble to be a God-Man since when he was reformed he was created less then angels.

Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels

Angels are only God-like, that is less then God. Calling Jesus a human God would have ALREADY exalted him past Angels before Jesus even did anything where the scriptures say he was exalted beyond angels because of human sacrifice.

Phl 2:8,9 became obedient unto death...Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Adam was created the same way Jesus was and he was not a God-Man or part of a trinity. (Ps. 8:5-8) That is why Jesus is called the second Adam, the perfect Man. (1Cr 15:47)

Answer 11

I'm sorry. Nowhere in scripture do we find such phrases as "triune God," "God the Son", or "God the Holy Spirit." Neither do we find anywhere in scripture even a remote suggestion that the Holy Spirit is a person, much less a third person. While it is true that the Holy Spirit is spoken of in the masculine, this cannot be construed as evidence for the Holy Spirit being a person. Sin and death are spoken of as kings (masculine) in the Bible, but reasonably we do not believe that sin and/or death is a person, do we?

While the three (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are sometimes spoken of together; as in the well-known command found in Matthew 28; this too cannot be construed as evincing a triune god. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are spoken of together; so are Peter, James and John but that does not make them a triune person, does it?

Emmanuel does mean "With Us Is God", yes but this cannot be construed as meaning that Jesus is God. After all, Hebrews plainly stated that Jesus is the exact representation of God's very being. Naturally, we would expect Jesus to perfectly reflect his heavenly father. A reflection, however, is not the exact same as that which is reflected.

Finally, it is undisputed that it is impossible for God to die. He is from eternal to eternal and his life never ends. There is no basis in fact or in scripture upon which to contend that God "came in human form and died for us." The scriptures do not provide any such qualification. God cannot die – period. Just like He cannot lie – period.

All scriptures which deal with God and with Jesus must be considered in order to come to a correct understanding. No one scripture can be relied upon – at the exclusion of all others – to teach that Jesus is God almighty.

So I cannot provide you with any scripture which states specifically, or even implies gently, that Jesus is the Sovereign Lord God of Armies. I hope you are not disappointed. :)

Hannah J Paul