Question about the begining of the protestant movement.?

Question

It started with Luther who wanted to change some of the corruption within the church. He didnt want to leave it.

When he did leave, he still believed in the physical presence of christ in communion. Some others who followed him didnt and over time that got diluted to being just symbolic.

Luther himself took some books out of the original new testement that had been there for almost 1200 years.

Quickly because of the lack of cohesivness and the focus on scripture alone the Luthern group split into Anglican, Prespeterian, Lutheran, Calvinist etc.

So with such a fragmented group believing whatever they want how can anyone have absolute faith in their own interpretation.

Responses I get tend to be, where does the bible say thus and so in relation to Catholics but how can a group take direction from a book that a man decided to take a lot of books out of to suit his own beliefs. It is not the orignial bible that God inspired men to put together.

Just to help out the catholic church actualy started with Christ. It started with all the early apostles, they would have have had very similar services to the current mass.

Answer 1

Well sir, I expect I put much more trust in God than you.

If you look at things from a purely intellectual aspect, I expect you should come out with an opinion such as yours.

If you look at it from a spiritual perspective, God is quite capable of keeping those who have been chosen to have the Holy Spirit witness within them to the truth within His preserved written Word. You see, the written word is not THE WORD. The latter is Christ Himself, and his law is written upon ones heart at their spiritual rebirth in Him.

Now, I cannot intellectually convince you of a spiritual birth. This is why so many who have sight, are actually blind. This is also why people who walk around, are actually dead (spiritually),

Once Christ instructed a man that said he wanted to wait to follow Him until after a funeral. Christ said, 'Let the dead bury the dead'. To the intellectual mind, this is a paradox, since those who were performing the funeral were physically alive. To the spiritual mind, the truth in His words are discerned that those who appeared alive, were actually no more alive than the corpse they carried.

End result is that I can give you a million reasons either for, or against the written Word as it is presently kept. The one thing I cannot give you is the witness of the Holy Spirit to the truth of His preserved written Word.

Study to show thyself approved. Test the spirits. Be Berean, and test what is told against what is in the written Word. Seek the witness of the Holy Spirit that what is said is truth. These are the rules I use, I cannot tell you what to do.

Answer 2

sixth December 1921 This treaty among Britain and Ireland, legalised Partition. Violence, primarily within the six northern counties escalated as Catholics confirmed their competition to Partition. 1969 Catholic needs have been no closer being met and with the method of the 2 principal Unionist marches (the march of the Orangemen on July twelfth and the march on August twelfth to commemorate the siege of Derry in 1689 while apprentice boys closed the gates on King James) anxiety among Catholics and Protestants was once prime. The remark approximately Ireland desiring support on the second is fascinating and who got here to the rescue? It's something to wish independence however an additional factor to be competent to be unbiased. I have no idea approximately Gerry Adams and his insurance policies however the church might cross an extended option to implementing what the Bible says ie to are living in peace with one an additional (Matthew 7:12) if no longer then those ones who're making the disorders can not be contributors - on each side no longer simply Catholics however Protestants too. The church buildings might additionally use the which means of the Our Father to verify for humans that God's kingdom will come and remedy a majority of these problems, there is no factor getting concerned in politics (proof for the reason that 1170 advert in Ireland that guy can't consultant himself see Jeremiah 10:23; Ecclesiastes eight:nine and Daniel two:forty four)

Answer 3

Actually Luther did not remove certain books from the Bible, he just supported the fact that the books that were included in the Catholic Bible were uninspired and not part of the word of God.

Early canons of the Bible (before the catholic church was formed) did not include these books. Jesus did not quote from these books, the early church fathers did not quote from these books and many of these books were written too late to be inspired.

These books, commonly called the Apocrypha, have been shown to contain errors, contradictions and many other reasons to be rejected as inspired writings. The inspired writings and scriptures of the Bible are contained in 66 books, 39 in the Old Testament and 27 in the New. No other books should be included nor followed.

It is important to note that the catholics did not give us the Bible although that is what is taught by the catholic church. If they did give us the Bible, then why do they practice and believe in concepts that are contrary to the Bible??

If the Bible is a Catholic book,

1. Why does it condemn clerical dress? (Matt. 23:5-6).
2. Why does it teach against the adoration of Mary? (Luke 11:27-28).
3. Why does it show that all Christians are priests? (1 Pet. 2:5,9).
4. Why does it condemn the observance of special days? (Gal. 4:9-11).
5. Why does it teach that all Christians are saints? (1 Cor. 1:2).
6. Why does it condemn the making and adoration of images? (Ex. 20:4-5).
7. Why does it teach that baptism is immersion instead of pouring? (Col. 2:12).
8. Why does it forbid us to address religious leaders as "father"? (Matt. 23:9).
9. Why does it teach that Christ is the only foundation and not the apostle Peter? (1 Cor. 3:11).
10. Why does it teach that there is one mediator instead of many? (1 Tim. 2:5).
11. Why does it teach that a bishop must be a married man? (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5).
12. Why is it opposed to the primacy of Peter? (Luke 22:24-27).
13. Why does it oppose the idea of purgatory? (Luke 16:26).
14. Why is it completely silent about infant baptism, instrumental music in worship, indulgences, confession to priests, the rosary, the mass, and many other things in the Catholic Church?

See source for more info.

Answer 4

You are absolutely right.

As a former Protestant, the only thing I ever knew about Martin Luther was that he posted his 95 theses on the church door and that it mostly had to do with the selling of indulgences.

Now that I have become Catholic I've read more about Martin Luther and was surprised to find out what he really believed and what he really said. It's very interesting.

I searched the Council of Nicaea and can not find anything pertaining to removing books from the Bible. According to all the different websites I read, that council focused on the heresy of Arius which included creating the profession of faith. http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11044a.htm

Answer 5

Besides that, nowhere in the Bible does it state that Scripture is the only basis for faith and morals. The verse in the New Testament that says that srcripture is good for instruction only refers to the Old Testament since that was the only defined scripture at the time. The verse also does not state that scripture is hte ONLY foundation for belief.

Additionally, the Church was in existence BEFORE the Bible. Jesus did not write a Bible for us to follow. He called men to be disciples and taught them and told them to spread the Good News.

Jesus told Peter that he was the rock upon which He would build His church. Jesus did not hand a Bible to Peter and say that the Bible was what He would build His Church on.

Answer 6

Ok, just want to clarify some misconceptions that some Protestants obviously have about Martin Luther.

The man who "revered" Scripture so much did not simply disgree with the Catholic inclusion of the Apocrypha.

Martin Luther called the Book of James a "book of straw" and wanted to take it OUT of the New Testament. He disagreed with James' exposition of the importance of faith and works in our justification before God.

Luther also ADDED words to his German translation of the New Testament that were not in the original Greek! For instance he added the word "allein" or "alone" to the phrase "we are justified by faith (alone) apart from works of the law."

Talk about man-made doctrines! The man who supposedly revered Scripture and taught "the Bible alone" did some serious tampering with Holy Writ simply to support his novel doctrines.

When questioned about his unfounded revisions and opinions of Scripture he simply replied "Tell the papists that Dr. Martin Luther will have it so."

In other words "my will be done" and not God's.

Is this your hero??

Answer 7

The books that Luther took out of the Bible were from the Old Testament. They were 1 and 2 Maccabees, Sirach, Wisdom, Baruch, Tobit, and Judith. It's interesting to note that not all Jews accepted those books in their Scriptures. Those books were written in Greek, not Hebrew, and there was a division among the Jews as to whether they should be included in the Scriptures. The Helenistic Jews obviously believed that they should be, while the Palestinian Jews believed that they were not inspired of God and should be left out. To this day, you will not find those books in the Scriptures of the Jewish faith. Luther ended up going with the canon of the Hebrew Old Testament and not the Greek Septuagint.

He did, however, translate those books and added them to an appendix at the end of the Bible that he translated. He considered them useful to read, but not to be held equal to Scripture. He questioned some of the books of the New Testament, but he never took them out of his Bible.

There's a decent article here: http://www.ntrmin.org/Luther%20and%20the%20canon%202.htm#a2 (sorry, I don't know how to do links) It's really long, but it explains his position pretty well.

Answer 8

You are absolutly correct. The Church existed as one (there are always crazies) until the reformation.

Paul, Peter, Luke, John would all have been "Catholic" although not called that back then.

TJ you sound like a poster boy for chick tracts, everything you say is wrong.

Dont you think that maybe with 1.5 billion members of the catholic church that one of them might have thought about the questions you pose.

You can find all the true answers on www.catholic.com

That should point you to the truth. Protestants today are relativing to god on their own worldly terms and not on the terms that jesus asked for.

He only asked you to do one thing for him " do this in memory of me " and you dont do it.

Answer 9

If you think that's a trip - check this out.

Back in 325 c.e. in Turkey, the Council of Nicea, headed by Constanine, decided to chuck about 5 books out of the bible. These books were deemed 'damaging'. Interesting, huh? For those modern Christians who beleive that the bible is the infallible word of god - I wonder if they know how much it's been mutilated and manipulated by politics and corruption before it reaches their hands, hmm?

Answer 10

AMEN! I very much agree with you! :)