I was in church today and the pastor said the reason God lets people burn in hell is because he would never force his love on anyone. Then the pastor said that now a days we have a word for forcing our love on someone it is rape. Being a victom of rape I was really offended, becasue rape is not about love it is about power. During what I have gone through my husband has forced me to do things that I didn't want to do, like seek help and counceling and I would consider he was forcing love on me. Even though I didn't want his help in the end it was better for me. Isn't this what tough love is, no parent would allow their child to go a bad way, they would try and stop them right? That is tough love. Shouldn't God who is a perfect Father be the same way? Seems to me if God lets someone burn in hell because he does not love God, that is abuse of a child right? I know I would never punish my child for not loving me, what do you guys think?
2007-09-09 14:48:40 · 21 answers · asked by Jessy 4 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Personally, I left the christian church YEARS ago after starting with a question similar to yours, but that was/is MY path. My advice to you would be talk with your pastor and clear up any 'miscommunication' concerning the topic that might have occurred, and see what happens, deal with what IS at that point. Below are some 'educatonal' concepts concerning you question if you care to read.
Such philosophy stems from the We verses Them mentality put out by the christian church. The same old 'convert or die' mentailty, fortunately our currect society looks down upon the christians that actually kill now a days. Modern philosophy is that they just sentence them to hell with words.
Though one should note that NO MAN can say who is going to heaven nor hell. The is the job of the SPIRIT on the 'day of judgement'. Even 'Jesus' said that calling him LORD-wasn't a 'get out of hell free card'.
Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you sinners!’
People can HOPE that they are doing what is 'right', but until the 'day of judgement' and a person gets their 'rubber stamp' to claim such would be Bearing False Witness.
It is unfortunate, that christians really don't read the OT. Many of the Christian silly concepts are in contradiction to the Laws of god. Like you aren't supposed to convert people Deuteronomy 13. Basically, converting people is giving them an OTHER god---one that they personally haven't known or one unknown to their fathers. Essentially saying that their god isn't everywhere. Even 'Jesus' rebutes converters.
Mat 23:15“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.”
One should also remember that god doesn't become a 'god of love' until the rise of christianity. OT concepts of god--
Deut 32:39 "See now that I myself am He! There is no god besides me. I put to death and I bring to life, I have wounded and I will heal, and no one can deliver out of my hand.
Isa 45:7 I form Light and create darkness, I make weal(well-being) and create woe(misery/sin), I am the Lord, who do all these things.
EXO 4:11 The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD ?
One should also note that the concepts of heaven and hell also didn't come into the philosophy until the rise of Christianiy. In the early hebrew texts, everyone whether good or bad all go to the same place -Shoel.
Ecc 3: 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return.
2007-09-09 15:08:12 · answer #1 · answered by Lion Jester 5 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Do you remember when you were in school? Some people followed the rules and graduated. Some people broke the rules a lot, failed classes and dropped out or were expelled.
You think of Hell as a punishment. Hell is pretty slimy because that is where all the drop-outs and people who are expelled go.
You want God to force you to "graduate" and you think you are being punished if you are not forced to graduate.
Did you think this same thing in school?
We should totally ignore the choices people make and force them to do what is "right"!
Who decides what is right? Me? I don't want the job. You? I think I will dust off those old hand written and copied weathermen handbooks my parents had around. Sometimes even left wing terrorists can be useful.
You told your high school principle, the dean of any college you attended, whoever, that they had no right to allow people to drop out or expel students for any reason?
You really believe this?
Rape is about control, power. God does not force people into heaven, that would be rape. It would be a control oriented power trip to force someone who did not want it to take it anyway.
Tough love is not forcing people to do things.
Tough love is not giving in to tantrums. Tough love is setting boundaries and adhering to them, no matter what. Tough love is making tough choices and giving others the respect to allow them to make their own choices. Even bad choices that have consequences.
You want someone to force things on you? If they are the "right" things?
How does a rapist know what you consider "right"?
2007-09-09 15:12:03 · answer #2 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋
I think the comment about rape was totally out of line. There was nothing biblical about it. It was his opinion and pastors have to be careful to keep their opinions under wrap.
As far as your other question...... People will go to hell for rejecting Christ. There is no nice way to say or explain it. God had to turn his back on his son all the way to the cross and he will turn his back on us too! He did this because we were so lost in our sin that we needed a savior. Is it right for Christ to have been beaten to an unrecognizable, bloody pulp, and have people still mock and reject him! God has given us a choice. The bible says we can choose death on life. Jesus will not come until all have a chance to hear and accept the message of the Gospel, but even then, many will refuse it and sadly they will perish. : D
2007-09-09 16:03:46 · answer #3 · answered by jojo9 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Jessy, God does not force his way on anyone, but he does punish to correct -- that is, tough love. The two are not incompatible.
Just as a parent teaches a child with both tenderness and toughness, reward and punishment, so God does. But there is a time when the child is no longer a child, and he has chosen his way of life -- parental training is done.
It is typical for us humans to not want God's help either (Romans 8:7), but he does love us, and he wants the best for us. And while we are children, he will help us with both punishment and reward -- even at times when we don't think we want it -- just as children don't always know what they really need or want. (It's easy to think we don't want something we don't really know anything about -- But as it is written: "Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him." -- 1Co 2:9).
In order to maintain our free moral agency, God will not FORCE us to do what is right -- he doesn't want robots as eternal companions. Once he has determined that our life's path is set, there is nothing more he will do to keep us from doing wrong, except to destroy us.
Your understanding of hell is neither biblical nor Christian. Hell (actually Gehenna, the Lake of Fire) is NOT for punishment, it is for destruction:
Matthew 10:28 -- And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to DESTROY both soul and body in hell (Gehenna -- a symbol for the Lake of Fire).
Romans 6:23 -- For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note, those who continue in sin are NOT granted eternal life in hell, but eternal DEATH. It is only those who mature and live the right way of peace and joy and love that will be granted eternal LIFE.
2007-09-09 15:51:37 · answer #4 · answered by BC 6 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Your pastor couldn't think of an analogy better than forcing love = rape. Well I am sorry you had to relive everything again.
Your husband forcing help and counseling is love.
Humans have been trying - and failing - to explain GOD for centuries. With no true understanding.
I would focus on your family/husband and yourself, as well as your community; and avoid dwelling on words or teachings that confuse. Talk over with your husband what to do when your family has to listen to stuff like this so you are a united front, then life should be easier. (hopefully)
Peace.
2007-09-09 15:07:00 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋
While I am not a christian, I don't believe that Christians would equate God's love with the type of love that one equates with a sexual relation. You are right, clearly there is no love in rape. I think you have touched upon a very difficult for things to Christians to explain, how could a loving parent intentionally sacrifice His only son. How could a God send his children to hell because they did not worship Him? About the only answer I have every hear Christians give is their standard answer that we can't question the wisdom of God as we don't know what His plan is for us.
2007-09-09 15:04:34 · answer #6 · answered by rec 3 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Depends on the angle your looking at it from..... God has let us live our lives for over 2000 years now..... He is not forcing us into anything...... Some have money, some not, some people are murders and some or not....... some people just go along their happy merry way and have fun, fun, fun,..... party, do drugs, drink, rape, abuse, etc........ People claim that it is Christians that are doing all the evil stuff, but I say BULL........ when people are doing the ugly , evil stuff they do, they are NOT Christian, NOT at that time anyway !!! NO WAY !!!!!!! I do NOT agree with TOUGH LOVE, I have a real problem with most of its concepts, but others don't, it works for them, then fine....... Ok, now lets flip the coin here, You say tough love worked on you ... right ?? then why can't the Father who created us use so called Tough Love on his family ??? His loved ones ??? His children?? that is what the Bible is........ it shows us our sins and wrongs, it points us to a better path.........God has given each of us the tools to get there........ Humans give each other ultimatumes all the time, we say, do this or else !!!!!!!! go that or I will walk away !!!!! go to this doctor or that doctor to get help or I will move on !!!!!! God has only ONE ultimatum, for lack of better word......... Believe ME or parish............ 2 choices....... pick one.......... that simple............. God is not punishing for lack of love, he is punishing for lack of FAITH........and you can not love what you do NOT believe in .... right ??? a mother should always believe in her child which is part of love..... but a mother also knows when to let that child choose and walk their own path.......... God does the same....... go in peace...... God bless
PS..... I was abused at a young age too.... and I do NOT agree with your pastor using that example in church....... the elders need to rebuke him for such a statement......
2007-09-09 15:06:37 · answer #7 · answered by Annie 7 · 0⤊ 1⤋
I am sorry to hear that you have had such trauma in your life. I am glad for you that you have found such a loving husband to help you get though it.
To me the Christian god is a logical impossibility if hell is claimed to be real.
What possible crime could justify an eternity of torture without redemption?
A loving father does not hand out infinite cruel punishments to his children. He may punish them, but as a method of teaching. The punishment always ends. It is always possible for the child to redeem themselves after the event.
Any god that can create an eternal hell is a cruel and spiteful god.
2007-09-09 15:07:26 · answer #8 · answered by Simon T 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
First, I am sorry that you were raped which, as you have said, has no relation to love, being about power. As for your pastor's remarks re: God's not forcing his love upon people, instead condemning them to burn in Hell, I personally could never accept such a statement. I am actually an agnostic although I was exposed to a liberal Protestant religion in my childhood and youth. Our ministers in that church never preached Hell and damnation but rather stressed the love message of Christianity as well as its tolerance for other faiths and denominations. If your pastor is a fundamentalist, he is interpreting the Bible literally from his point of view, but, being human, he is not above being in error in his own beliefs. You will have to decide for yourself whether to allow him to dictate your belief system or whether to develop your own. To my thinking, questioning theology is conducive to enhancing one's intellectual growth.
2007-09-09 15:37:51 · answer #9 · answered by Lynci 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
God does not send anyone to hell. They send themselves there . Listen you have to reject God, his son Jesus, and his way of life to get to hell. Your Pastor is right that God will never force anyone to love him. But your Pastor is wrong saying that rape is the forcing of love on someone. You are correct about rape and you should be offended at his statement. God does do the tough love routine. He corrects and chastens whom he loves. But if we reject his love we send ourselves to hell. God is not willing that any should perish. But because he is a righteous God he can not let into heaven those who do not love him in return. Its like this. One man robs a bank and another works hard all day for his wages. We cant make the robber equal with the worker . Neither can God allow the unrepentent sinner into heaven alongside the righteous man who loves him and obeys his laws.
2007-09-09 15:04:39 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 2⤋