John 3:3-7 "Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God....Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter tnto the kingdom of God.....Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again."
Wouldn't this be a good time for Jesus to mention to Nicodemus about the Earthly class? Has Jesus missed something Important, or has the WBTS given us a false doctrine again?
2007-09-09 05:18:30 · 32 answers · asked by Anonymous in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
Edit: Watchtower Bible and Tract Sociaty WBTS
2007-09-09 05:27:00 · update #1
Bigsky74..Read "A Case For Christ" by Lee Strobel You might change your mind.
2007-09-09 05:30:35 · update #2
JR...Out of context per Jw usual. Matt.11:12 "And from the Days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven sufers violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John"
Scripture hopping is not allowed here! Now What is Jesus talking about really?
2007-09-09 05:38:34 · update #3
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtSyNa.erWtwWJLLYLkw2dTsy6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20070908214755AAVsOox&show=7#profile-info-26EFlW6Faa
silenced...How come all of your contacts are removed? what happened?
2007-09-09 06:16:28 · update #4
The book of Revelation has always presented the interpreter with challenges. The book is steeped in vivid imagery and symbolism, which people have interpreted differently depending on their preconceptions of the book as a whole. There are four main interpretive approaches to the book of Revelation: 1) Preterist (which sees all or most of the events in Revelation as having already occurred by the end of the 1st century); 2) Historicist (which sees Revelation as a survey of Church history from apostolic times to the present); 3) Idealist (which sees Revelation as a depiction of the struggle between good and evil); 4) Futurist (which sees Revelation as prophetic of events to come). Of the four, only the futurist approach interprets Revelation in the same grammatical-historical method as the rest of Scripture. It’s also a better fit with Revelation’s own claim to be prophecy (Revelation 1:3; 22:7, 10, 18, 19).
So the answer to the question, “who are the 144,000?” will depend on which interpretive approach you take to the book of Revelation. With the exception of the futurist approach, all of the other approaches interpret the 144,000 symbolically, as being representative of the Church, and the number “144,000” being symbolic of the totality—i.e., the complete number—of the Church. Yet when taking the passage at face value: “And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel”(Revelation 7:4), there is nothing in the passage which necessitates interpreting the 144,000 as anything but a literal number of 144,000 Jews, 12,000 taken from every tribe of the “sons of Israel.” The New Testament offers no clear-cut text replacing Israel with the Church.
These Jews are “sealed,” which means they have the special protection of God from all of the divine judgments and from the antichrist to perform their mission during the Tribulation period (see Revelation 6:17, in which people will wonder who can stand from the wrath to come). The Tribulation period is a yet future seven-year period of time in which God will enact divine judgment against those who reject him and complete his plan of salvation for the nation of Israel. All of this is according to God’s revelation to the prophet Daniel (Daniel 9:24-27). The 144,000 Jews are a sort of “first fruits” (Revelation 14:4) of a redeemed Israel which has been previously prophesied (Zechariah 12:10; Romans 11:25-27), and their mission is to evangelize the post-Rapture world and proclaim the gospel during the Tribulation period. As a result of their ministry millions (“A great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.”) will come to faith in Christ (Revelation 7:9).
Much of the confusion regarding the 144,000 is a result of the false doctrines of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Jehovah’s Witnesses claim that the 144,000 is a limit to the number of people who will reign with Christ in heaven and spend eternity with God. The 144,000 have what the Jehovah’s Witnesses call the heavenly hope. Those who are not born again will enjoy what they call the earthly hope—a paradise on earth ruled by Christ and the 144,000. Clearly we can see that Jehovah’s Witness teaching sets up a caste society in the afterlife with a ruling class (the 144,000) and those who are ruled. The Bible teaches no such “dual class” doctrine. It is true that according to Revelation 20:4 there will be people ruling in the Millennium with Christ. These people will be comprised of the Church (believers in Jesus Christ), Old Testament saints (believers who died before Christ’s first advent), and Tribulation saints (those who accept Christ during the Tribulation). Yet the Bible places no numerical limit on this group of people. Furthermore, the Millennium is different from the Eternal State, which will take place at the completion of the Millennial period. At that time, God will dwell with us in the New Jerusalem. He will be our God and we will be his people (Revelation 21:3). The inheritance promised to us in Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14) will become ours and we will all be co-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).
Recommended Resource: Understanding End Times Prophecy by Paul Benware.
2007-09-09 05:26:51 · answer #1 · answered by Freedom 7 · 4⤊ 1⤋
Good point. Such a statement would, indeed, require a "disclaimer" if there were a need for one.
At this point, it would have been entirely logical--not to mention, ethical--for Jesus to forwarn Nicodemus that only a select few could be born again (or "anointed" as the JWs say). Yet, He says no such thing. The fact is that He says that ANYONE who wants to see the Kingdom of heaven MUST be born again.
Then, does He then mean that, for everyone who becomes born again, it will not necessarily follow that they would see the Kingdom of heaven? No, He doesn't add any disclaimer to that effect either.
What He DOES say is very simple: that ANYONE who wishes to see the Kingdom of Heaven must be born again, spiritually. Period. End of story. The Gospel is SIMPLE. Paul Affirms this (2 Cor. 11:3). God does not mean for it to be convoluted so that only those with superior intellect can figure it out and be saved.
Rather, Scripture affirms that He desires that NONE perish, but that all attain eternal life. The only time confusion comes into play is when misinterpretation reigns supreme, as it does in cult theology.
2007-09-09 06:07:22 · answer #2 · answered by Simon Peter 5 · 2⤊ 0⤋
a stable individual with a organic coronary heart taught catholic considering that delivery, might they be destroyed. I dont think of they may well be you realize. specially by way of fact in case you seem at it this style, what proportion solid organic human beings could there have been in the previous the witnesses. (Im no longer knocking the witnesses however the present organization basically got here into being interior the 1800s) Why could they be destroyed in the event that they hadnt been given the possibility to appreciate the fact? It states extremely of course there will be a resurrection of the two the righteous and unrighteous (Acts 24:15).. and that that people who by no skill knew Gods way might take transport of a brilliant gamble for the time of Christs 1000 year reign to examine it. Revelation 20 people who shouldnt die in armageddon would die by way of motives that can not be controlled, yet while they do then they are going to be resurrected and in the event that they didnt understand the suitable way they'll take transport of the possibility to examine it. The wages sin will pay is dying, so which you have paid off the salary off sin in case you die. and you get the possibility of accepting Gods way. Romans 6:23 additionally with the 2nd portion of your question, in the event that they have been trully repentant then specific Im valuable God might forgive them. yet they couldnt basically faux and attempt to fool God, they actually might in actual fact deep of their hearts must be sorry. Acts 26:18
2016-10-19 23:29:38 · answer #3 · answered by ? 4 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Oooh! brian89 has a great point! ->
"Anyway....in revelation it says only 144,000 will rule in Heaven, not only 144,000 will go to heaven..."
I've known quite a few who considered themselves part of that "class." At least a couple of them would fall under 'just plain nuts' but most of them were very sweet. A couple of them were very good friends. But they all had a persona that was sculpted by the belief system. They felt they were called to a special commission beyond the "regular" witnesses who were part of the "great crowd," the "earthly class."
How would it affect the whole of Jehovah's witnesses should they change their doctrine to say that everyone who's saved goes to heaven? Definitely a culture shock to all. That part of their doctrine is key to their power base. The subset of the "heavenly class" that controls what they're taught and what they're told to do defines its authority based on that teaching. I don't think they'll change it.
Suzanne
2007-09-09 07:53:11 · answer #4 · answered by Suzanne 5 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Since they've changed almost all their basic tenets four times in the less than 150 years they've been in existence, why are you surprised?
They exist to sell books and make their leadership comfortably well-off.
The Watchtower's version of Scripture is no closer to the original than is the Q'uran. Both are cribbed from Scripture for political and economic purposes that have NOTHING to do with faith in the Lord God Almighty!
2007-09-09 05:29:56 · answer #5 · answered by Granny Annie 6 · 3⤊ 1⤋
Back when my best girlfriend was a JW she knew only 300 would. So I guess they have experienced inflation? Um and also they are a bunch of nutters cuz why would parents make their children sit in the hall for all holiday activities that schools participate in, from Christmas to Hanukkah she was always sitting in the hall by herself. It was so depressing.
But to get to the point, I just want to ask you, what is not false doctrine? Why does everyone think out of all of the religions yours is the gospel? I don't understand how you think any ones "Bible" is the one. They were all written by fallible humans who have opinions and ideas if their own. Please someone look up the word faith and tell me how many of you really believe in that which you can not prove without a shadow of a doubt? It couldn't even stand up in a court of law!!
2007-09-09 05:27:51 · answer #6 · answered by bigsky74 4 · 2⤊ 2⤋
Romans says anyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved,
Luke 10:27 a man asks how to inherit eternal life, Jesus says what do the scriptures say? "Love your God with all heart,mind and soul, and you neighbor as yourself" Jesus says you are correct do this and you will live.
When Jesus is on the CROSS not torture stake, The thief turns to the other saying "Do you not fear God, for we are guilty of our sin but this man is innocent and still he hangs," Then he turns to Jesus and says Lord remember me when you come into your Kingdom to which Jesus replies"Truly I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise"
Was he baptized? NO.
2007-09-09 05:32:10 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 3⤊ 0⤋
False false and false again.
Romans 10:2 For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
They also teach that Jesus was only God's son, I guess using that line of reasoning (and can it be called reasoning?) he just didn't know, or maybe he hadn't had that book class yet!
2007-09-09 05:26:20 · answer #8 · answered by Kathi 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
If you read the entire 10th chapter of the gospel of John, you will see for yourself @ John 10:16: "I have other sheep, which are, "not of this fold," those also I must bring, and they will all become one flock.... "JESUS is OBVIOUSLY REFERRING TO THE CONVERSION of THE GENTILES! Not two 'classes of people'.
Also at Revelation chapter 7:4 ,the ref. to the numerical 144,000, this entire chapter is taken by the Watchtower as highly symbolic
Yet they take out of context the 144,000 sum as literal.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Jehovah+144%2C000&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7GGLJ
2007-09-09 06:44:29 · answer #9 · answered by USA 1 2 · 4⤊ 0⤋
hey ex
methinks anyone selecting a passage to put forth for debate is like asking a single bird out of a flock of 250 ' just where are you going?.' may be best to see the wider picture.
so just what is in your wallet, er thinking?
have a great day that has been provided
2007-09-09 05:28:55 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 0⤊ 0⤋