what is up with palestinians and israelis and whos land does it belong to?

Answer 1

Dave, let us say you have a 4 bedrom apartment. A family comes in and takes over your apartment. Then says: take 3 bedrooms of the apartment and we keep one and we live in peace. Will you find that acceptable?

Why do you have to give up any part of what is yours? Where do you stop?
LAter, they will find that 1 bedroom is not enough, they need 2, should you allow them to move in just to have peace???

Where does it stop? They decide 2 is small, and want three now. Hey, "they did not stop us taking first 2, lets go for a third" then a fourth and before you know it they take over your apartment without you putting up a fight!!!! Hey, I want peace. way to go!!!

Answer 2

Both Israelis and Palestinians need and deserve their own state - this must be non negotiable.

The issue is a very complex one, though. If you read some of the discussions we have in this forum, you'll appreciate that - and you will also see that we, Jews and Muslims, are trying to have a more positive dialogue.

You are welcome to join in - all we ask is that we all treat each other with respect.

As for who the land belongs to: Jews have had a continuous presence there for close on four thousand years. The original term 'Palestinian' referred mainly to Jews, ironically.

In 1948, when Britain proposed partition, the land would have been split between Muslims and Jews. The Jews said yes but unfortunately, the surrounding Arab nations declared war and invaded, within 12 hours of Israel officially becoming a state.

On a happier note, Israel has far better relations with Egypt, for example, today, and this is encouraging.

All decent Palestinians and Israelis want peace. The way to achieve it is to stop demonizing the other 'side' and to recognise that both groups will have to compromise.

Islam and Judaism are related religions - we have a lot in common and it's about time we all began concentrating on this, rather than on our differences!

And that is what we are trying to do in the Israel forum, for the most part.

Answer 3

If "Palestinians" allegedly are the historic inhabitants of the Holy Land, why did they not fight for independence from Roman occupation as Jews did?

How is it possible that not a single Palestinian leader heading for a revolt against the Roman invaders is mentioned in any historic record? Why there is not any Palestinian rebel group mentioned, as for example the Jewish Zealots? Why does every historic document mentions the Jews as the native inhabitants, and the Greeks, Romans and others as foreigners dwelling in Judea, but not any Palestinian people, neither as native nor as foreigner?

After the last Jewish War in the 2nd century, the Roman emperor Hadrian sacked Jerusalem in 135 and changed her name into Aeolia Capitolina, and the name of Judea into Palestina, in order to erase the Jewish identity from the face of the Earth. Most of the Jews were expelled from their own land by the Romans, a fact that determined the beginning of the great Diaspora. Nevertheless, small groups of Jews remained in the province then renamed "Palestine", and their descendants dwelled in their own country continuously throughout generations until the Zionist pioneers started on the mass return in the XIX century.

Therefore, the Jewish claim to the Land of Israel is justified not only by an old Biblical Promise, but also by a permanent presence of Jews as the only autonomous ethnic community existing in the Holy Land.

Well, as the "Palestinians" seem to say that the Jews took their land and think it is ok to blow up Jewish children as well as sacrifice their own, then it is not a good situation. The "Palestinians" will not even acknowledge the right of Jews to exist, let alone Israel. They seem to believe that Mohammed said it was ok to kill all Jews.

Answer 4

UN partition

On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly, with a two-thirds majority international vote, passed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine (United Nations General Assembly Resolution 181), a plan to resolve the Arab-Jewish conflict by partitioning the territory into separate Jewish and Arab states, with the Greater Jerusalem area (encompassing Bethlehem) coming under international control. Jewish leaders (including the Jewish Agency), accepted the plan, while Palestinian Arab leaders rejected it and refused to negotiate. Neighboring Arab and Muslim states also rejected the partition plan. The Arab community reacted violently after the Arab Higher Committee declared a strike and burned many buildings and shops. As armed skirmishes between Arab and Jewish paramilitary forces in Palestine continued, the British mandate ended on May 15, 1948, the establishment of the State of Israel having been proclaimed the day before. The neighboring Arab states and armies (Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Transjordan, Holy War Army, Arab Liberation Army, and local Arabs) immediately attacked Israel following its declaration of independence, and the 1948 Arab-Israeli War ensued. Consequently, the partition plan was never implemented.


Current status

Following the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the 1949 Armistice Agreements between Israel and neighboring Arab states eliminated Palestine as a distinct territory. With the establishment of Israel, the remaining lands were divided amongst Egypt, Syria and Jordan.

In addition to the UN-partitioned area it was allotted, Israel captured 26% of the Mandate territory west of the Jordan River. Jordan captured and annexed about 21% of the Mandate territory, known today as the West Bank. Jerusalem was divided, with Jordan taking the eastern parts, including the Old City, and Israel taking the western parts. The Gaza Strip was captured by Egypt.

For a description of the massive population movements, Arab and Jewish, at the time of the 1948 war and over the following decades.

From the 1960s onward, the term "Palestine" was regularly used in political contexts. Various declarations, such as the 15 November 1988 proclamation of a State of Palestine by the PLO referred to a country called Palestine, defining its borders based on the U.N. Resolution 242 and 383 and the principle of land for peace. The Green Line was the 1967 border established by many UN resolutions including those mentioned above.

In the course of the Six Day War in June 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan and Gaza from Egypt.

According to the CIA World Factbook, of the ten million people living between Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea, about five million (49%) identify as Palestinian, Arab, Bedouin and/or Druze. One million of those are citizens of Israel. The other four million are residents of the West Bank and Gaza, which are under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian National Authority.

In the West Bank, 360,000 Israeli settlers live in a hundred scattered settlements with connecting corridors. The 2.5 million West Bank Palestinians live in four blocs centered in Hebron, Ramallah, Nablus, and Jericho. In 2005, all the Israeli settlers were evacuated from the Gaza Strip in keeping with Ariel Sharon's plan for unilateral disengagement, and control over the area was transferred to the Palestinian Authority.

Answer 5

Tabatha - You said "In 1948, when Britain proposed partition, the land would have been split between Muslims and Jews."

I'm wondering about the Palestinian Christians - not everyone was Muslim or Jew. At one time there was actually a majority of Christians there, which has been decreasing for years. In 1948 there were about 350,000 Christians in Palestine, which was about 20% of the population. Sadly that is dwindled down to about 1.5% now.

Answer 6

When people have a dispute, they take their case to the courts of justice and they are expected to accept the rule of the law.

In international relations things are not much different. We have International law (mostly the resolutions of International Organizations and binding treaties), to solve conflicts. But unfortunately there is no International Police to enforce those rule of law.

In the case of the conflict of the Middle East, the legal ruling has been out for decades and is still awaiting implemetation. The international community has decided that the fair division of the land in question should be as follows (Based on the resolutions of the UN Security Council number 242 of 1967 and 338 of 1973):

1- Gaza Strip, West Bank and East Jerusalem (belong to Palestine)
2- Golan heights (belong to Syria)
3- Shebaa farms (belong to Lebanon)
4- The rest belongs to Israel.

Of course 1, 2 and 3 are currently under Israeli occupation. and all of the territories in 4 are already under Israeli sovereignty.

In 2002 all the Arabs represented by the Arab league (Including the State of Palestine) announced their unconditional and full acceptance of this international ruling. They presented the famous Arab Initiative (AKA King Abdullah Initiative) through which they offered full recognition of Israel, Peace and security arrangments in exchange for the lands in 1,2 and 3 above, and a just solution to the Palestinian refugees issue (whether through the right of return or compensation).

You can read the text of the Arab Peace initiative here:
http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

So its not such a complicated matter after all. I find the issue rather simple. Its just a matter of accepting the already known. Arabs have done their share and fully accepted the International rulings we are still awaiting the Israeli side to join us. But the best they could come up with is a partial and selective acceptance of this ruling which is obviously not good enough.

Edit to Dave: From the above I guess you can see that your comments are rather misguiding, again I like to classify them as "fogging statments" where a lot of irrelevant information is uncontrollably spewn in the discussion to hide the facts in the resulting mess.

On an official level (which is the only thing that counts at the end of the day) no body is saying "Kill all the Jews" anymore. But I guess I'll have to accept your second point, Since it is Israel is the one which unreasonably still refuses to recognize all the Arab rights as defined by the international community. So yes, I guess the more reasonable people should have their way... And since 2002 I can confidently say that it is the Arab side.

You strangely base your arguments on obsolete events like UN SC resolution 181 of 1948 (AKA the partition resolution) which is no longer accepted by all sides (including Israel) as a viable solution. And the formation of the PLO in 1964. True Egypt and Jordan were the care takers of the Gaza Strip and West Bank untill the formation of the PLO which was then recognized internationally as the representative of the Palestinian people. But so what... what is your point?

You end your answer with another obsolete principle not accepted by the international community any more, "the principle of conquest". I'm sorry pal but this rule doesn't exist anymore it was replaced in the late 40s by the Geneva conventions on the rules of war which Israel signed and ratified in 1951.

I know you had a tough time not speaking about those ancient times of the Bronze age when you think that God suddenly decided to leave his all important duties and work as a real estate agent distributing lands on planet earth (of all his majestic universe) and promising them to his "Chosen People". But I have to ask you to still and try to move a little bit closer towards the modern era...

Just in case you haven't noticed, today is the 8th of september 2007 (CE) not 2007 (BCE), Its not the Pax-Romana times, It is not an old western movie, it is not 1948 and not even 1967 where your clock seems to have stopped.

Answer 7

Both Palestine and Israel were created by the same UN resolution called the 2 state resolution. The issue with Israel is Israel want to keep occupying land that was never part of Israel. This fact is hunting any Israeli supporters and you can see it from the way they answer your question. Supporting occupation is morally and politically wrong by all means. Occupying other people by force is losing policy in the past and now and has no future.

Answer 8

Palestine. The Jews that live there now moved from countries like Russia and France, after their GREAT GREAT GREAT Grandparents were all born there. What gives a person who's never even heard of Palestine the right to go there and kick someone out of their homes ? People that have lived their all their lives, and their fathers and their Grandfathers, hows that fair ? Did you know that the majority of Palestinians are Christians and Muslims, and that THEY ARE the original inhabitants of the Land, who Converted to Islam from Judaisim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsLWbDnnZuo

Answer 9

About the land i don't know but which section are you in now, i know it's Israel, not Philistine.
So, can you see how it works now?
As i heard alot, that Palestinians sold their land long time ago, and now they want it back.

Answer 10

Palestinians have fought for the Holy Land which belongs to the Israelis - God's Land - So to speak.

God has blessed that Nation for many, many years, and He has promised that if they put their full faith and trust in Him, that He would continue to bless them.

So, God has blessed the United States with the capacity to help Israel retain their 'right to life and property' within the region, through 'aid' -- an act of diplomacy if you will, a Peace Pact, to agree on both sides.