Does God exist? A few thoughts. Responses invited.?

Question

I have been brought up as a Christian. I have a scientific background which has taught me that I should only believe that for which I have evidence. The Bible is a text which, from a scientific point of view, is full of holes big enough to drive a coach and horses through. What we know to be factual about
the universe is at odds with whats in the Bible

Answer 1

Yes, God exists.

A person can NOT be "brought up as a Christian". They can be exposed to the teachings. But, to BE a Christian, one has to open his/her heart and mind to the love and mercy of the one true God, and accept salvation of the eternal soul thru His Son, Jesus. (refer to the covenant between God and man in the New Testament)

You have a "scientific background". As I do (BS in Computational Mathematics with highest honors and MS in Computer Sciences from Purdue University). That "background" does NOT teach that "[you] should only believe that for which [you] have evidence". I'm CERTAIN that you believe or support MANY theories for which there is scant little or even NO evidence. Merely theory.

Now, on to your comment about the Holy Bible being "full of holes". Citations please (that's the scientific requirement).

What you KNOW to be factual about the universe? As in the THEORIES?? Being "at odds with whats in the Bible"? Again, citations, please.

Lastly, per your claim of being a scientific person, you certainly already know that FAITH is defined as belief in the absence of concrete evidence. And, once concrete evidence appears, there's absolutely NO NEED for faith (it's then called "proof").

So, pick a scientific theory. ANY scientific theory. Now, present the scientific PROOF for that theory. With citations.

Please, THINK before presenting such a position.

Answer 2

I have a scientific background too, but it never taught me that I should only believe in that for which I have evidence. In fact, more than anything else, my scientific background made it crystal clear to me that the only real truth is that we don't know everything.

Since the beginning of scientific thought, scientists have always thought that the evidence they collected made their beliefs reasonable...and the essential lesson of history is their many of their most closely held beliefs will invariably be disproven by future discoveries.

Isn't it in fact, anti-scientific to believe that what you "know" is the absolute truth...if the universe is limited only to that which we know, what need do we have for science.

Personally, I know of no holes in the bible from a rational or scientific point of view. What I know to be "factual" about the universe is entirely (perfectly) consistent with what's in the Bible. Yes, much of the speculation/interpretation associated with science is inconsistent, but the facts (the scientifically-derived evidence if you will) doesn't in any way disprove what's in the Bible!

Answer 3

I think this is a common misunderstanding, that somehow the bible and science are talking about the same realm of existence and therefore are in conflict. It comes up time and again on R&S. It seems to me a great shame that religious people can't allow science to be a pursuit of knowledge which relates to the physical, material world, while religion is the pursuit of knowledge relating to the inner, spiritual world.

When the Old Testament/Tanakh talks about creation and other aspects of how the world works, it is creating beautiful symbolic ways of explaining how we relate to others and to the life of the spirit. The problem comes when people start to think this is literal. I don't know why so many modern Christians seem to have a need to make it all so concrete and literal, as if there was no way of experiencing the world beyond the rational. This seems to me to be an abdication of the very realm that religion/spiritual ideas should really be addressing - the non-rational (i'm not talking about IRRATIONAL - but about things not amenable to reason, like emotions among much else).

You might find it interesting to read a paper by Ken Wilber entitled 'Eye to Eye', which forms the first chapter of his book of the same name. I think he explains all this far more cogently than I can do. He bases his paper on the work of St Bonaventure who wrote of three different ways of attaining knowledge: the eye of flesh (perceiving the external world - the observations of science); the eye of reason (attaining knowledge of philosophy, logic and the mind itself); and the eye of contemplation (by which we gain knowledge of transcendent realities). It's a hugely important paper, which should be better known.

Answer 4

Most christians don't believe everything it says in the bible. Which is good, since I wouldn't want to live in a society that stoned people.
Generally, when people who believe in God are arguing with people who don't, they ask them the following questions:
1. How did the universe come to exist?
2. If God doesn't exist, then how did we get here? (I don't like this one...)
3. If God doesn't exist, then how do you explain the fact that most world religions have similar ideas of morality and of the supernatural? (for example, no major religion believes that God/the gods live underground or underwater.)
4. If God doesn't exist, then what is good?

Answer 5

The bible was written by primitive people who had no real understanding of science, and the only thing they could think to pin it on was the fact that something a lot bigger than them was controlling everything. The lack of scientific knowledge will also have an effect on what they say or retell in the stories.

Answer 6

Not in the form that Christians think he does. Maybe there is some force or being that started the process of creating the universe and setting out the conditions in which life will appear but there is no being or god that has a personal interest in anybody. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that. So when you pray nobody is listening you are just comforting yourself. That maybe a good thing

Answer 7

Perhaps if you would cease from IGNORING and CENSORING half of the scientific data, (the half that debunks old earth ideas, and evolution), then you will probably have to change your mind.

The bible is NOT full of holes. Your theories are. The earth is NOT old. Things like fossils, coal, oil, stalactites and stalagmites DO NOT take very long to form. There is plenty of evidence that blows holes in theories like evolution, and old earth ideas. Look it up. Stop speculating, and start doing REAL science. Stop ignoring the data that debunks some of the theories you religiously and faithfully hold to.

Answer 8

I'm a scientist too and the more we learn the more we realise that we have to learn. Science can't explain everything. Most of science is based on theory...e= mc squared for example. Einstein's theory has never been proven, it is still a good theory.I cannot believe that eyes are 'accidentally' sensitive to light rays of a certain wavelength, that ears are 'accidentally' sensitive to sound vibrations; that our digestive systems contain exactly the correct chemicals/ enzymes that work (at body temperature) on our food to digest it by 'accident'.

Answer 9

Gods were invented by man, in a desperate attempt to explain the unexplainable... things like the sun, moon, and stars... day and night... thunder and lightening... sickness and death... etc... and to answer the unanswerable... profound questions like "Daddy... what holds the sky up?"

For all of these questions, the delusion "God did it" (the ILLUSION of knowledge) has been replaced by REAL knowledge... and as a result, this 'god' has been reduced from an all-powerful supernatural being to a 'God of the Gaps'... an imaginary cockroach-like creature that scurries from crack-to-crevice, looking for the remaining patches of darkness and shadow in mankind's '"knowledge-base", so as to cower and hide from the glaring light of knowledge and understanding.

The fact that people continue to cling to this pitiable, delusional 'god' idea is a pathetic disgrace, to say the least... a testament to the enduring power of gullibility, irrationality, willful ignorance, self-delusion, intellectual dishonesty, hypocrisy and drooling stupidity.

Yet today, we find stalwart defenders of these insane delusions fighting a desperate battle to stave of knowledge and understanding, trying to shield the dark cracks and crevices of ignorance from the light of reason... crying "No... no... that ain't so... God did it... God did it."

Pfffttt...

DP
.

Answer 10

God exists in everything - flowers, trees, animals, my backside and my sh*t.
God is love and love is not something which is understood by the mind alone but only felt with the heart. The bible must be understood the same way.