Historical evidence of the man Jesus? Read this and tell me what you think:?

Question

Roman historian Cornelius Tacitus recorded information pertaining to Jesus, In 115 A.D., Tactius wrote about the great fire in Rome, "Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberious at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular. Accordingly, an arrest was first made of all who pleaded guilty; then upon their information, an immense multitude was convicted, not so much of the crime of firing the city, as of hatred against mankind. Mockery of every sort was added to their deaths, Covered with

Covered with the skins of beasts, they were torn by dogs and perished, or were nailed to crosses, or were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination, when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle, and was exhibiting a show in the circus, while he mingled with the people in the dress of charioteer or stood aloft on a car. Hence, even for criminals who deserved extreme and exemplary punishment, there arose a feeling of compassion; for it was not, as it seemed, for the public good, but to glut one man's cruelty, that they were being destroyed."

Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, a member of a priestly family and who became a Pharisee at the age of 19, became the court historian for Emperor Vespasian. In the Antiquities, he wrote about many persons and events of first century Palestine. He makes two references to Jesus. The first reference is believed associated with the Apostle James. "...he brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." He also wrote, "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D.

Before Tacitus, Suetonius or Josephus, Thallus wrote about the crucifixion of Jesus. His writing date to circa 52 A.D. and the passage on Jesus was contained in Thallus' work on the Eastern Mediterranean world from the Trojan War to 52 A.D. Thallus noted that darkness fell on the land at the time of the crucifixion. He wrote that such a phenomenon was caused by an eclipse. Though Christ was not proclaimed a deity until the fourth century, Pliny the Younger, a Roman author and administrator who served as the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor, wrote in 112 A.D., two hundred years before the "deity" proclamation, that Christians in Bithynia worshipped Christ.

Answer 1

Isn't it amazing how God allows us to get all the information we need throughout the ages?

He is sovereign.....He is Almighty.....nothing happens apart from His perfect knowledge......

And He will return for us someday soon

Answer 2

Interesting quotes. The first was written over 100 years after the supposed death of the historical Jesus.

Barring further information, I find It hard to separate the historical figure from the propaganda made by the Christian groups that followed him, or changed his image to suit their political and social agendas. Considering the inconsistencies of the Bible itself, why should I jump the gun from believing a man was crucified for his belief system, to the notion that a this man floated into the sky, or rose from the dead?

And persecution, in itself, does not mean that a belief system has validity. The Romans also persecuted Pagan heretics after Christianity became the official religion. Does that mean that Paganism has a basis in reality, or that Bacchus was really resurrected from the dead?

Answer 3

Christain proposition: Jesus died ~30 CE

Your support for a historical Jesus:
- The writings of Marcion ca. 110 CE, said to be copies of the writings of Paul, ca. 50 CE;
- A blurb about Christus by Tacitus (generally believed authentic), 115 CE
- A blurb about Christ by Josephus (generally believed to be inauthentic), ca. 80 CE
- A blurb by Julius Africanus, ca. 200 CE making reference back to Thallus
- The rest of the NT, almost certainly from the 2nd century

The problem is, that of these sources, Marcions Pauline letters are the best evidence, yet Paul seems to know almost nothing about the man Jesus. Paul never quotes from Jesus, Paul never states Jesus lived recently, Paul never recalls stories of the life of Jesus, he never mentions who Jesus mother is even though he refers to her indirectly, etc. Jesus appears to be a foggy legendary figure already by the time of Paul. That isn't reasonable if Jesus was a historical contemporary figure of Paul.

Answer 4

"They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D."

How is that possible?

Did you by any chance fact check? Can you please explain to me how "historical writings of Jesus, Pre date the old testament?" You do know the difference between the old and the new testament don't you? Also when you site tacitus you should try to keep in mind that Jesus supposedly died around 30 CE....so if Tacitus wrote about Jesus oh what 75+ years later do you think he was an eye witness or he was talking about stories he heard?

Answer 5

Those historical writings you refer to, especially the one by Josephus, are critically flawed. They are mostly just the grabbings of and by the Catholic Church to offer some sort of proof to support that which never occured. You need to do some unbiased research for the truth. The "Josephus Testimonium" to which you refer would be a could start.

Answer 6

"Tacitus, the Roman historian's birth year at 64 C.E., puts him well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which he wrote around 109 C.E. He gives no source for his material. Although many have disputed the authenticity of Tacitus' mention of Jesus, the very fact that his birth happened after the alleged Jesus and wrote the Annals during the formation of Christianity, shows that his writing can only provide us with hearsay accounts."

In other words, not evidence at all.

Answer 7

you like your religion so much that i can't answer this question but please don't accept anything blindly please.
jesus had diciples who followed all his teachings but nowadays it is different everyone wants to be in power in the name of the religion so where is the spirituality and the true teachings of christ which myself i would be very happy to follow and put in practice.'' the kingdom of heaven is within you'' but what should i do to attain it . i don't think just going to the church every sunday is enough though i say it is very important to keep in touch with God. baptism by john the baptist himself or by a priest, do you think it will have the same effect on a man, i don't think so. i have never disagreed with the true teachings of christ and never will. but if you look how some people manipulate other people, you are sad sometimes yes very sad. why is it so?

Answer 8

It looks as if there are Romans who heard that Jesus existed.

I have also read in history books that the Greek Gods existed, and that Roman deities were real. Jesus the man, may have existed, chances are he did, but Jesus the God, didn't.

Answer 9

So the earliest of all of this crap was documented some twenty years (52 AD by your reckoning) after the supposed individual was nailed to the cross?

How accurately can you recount things from 20-odd years ago?

And you'd expect that to measure up to scrutiny?

Ahh, nope.

Answer 10

Try rereading Tacitus he mentions followers of someone called Christ not Christ himself it just means that the religion had started by that point and is in no way proof he existed.

Answer 11

So what is the point? that if you can prove someone lived. that they are God. Or are you Muslim. trying to show that Christ was just a man? I am missing your motive.