Have any christians come up with evidence for Jesus existing yet?

Question

I haven't asked about this for months.

So here we go again.

The gospels were all written decades after the supposed death of Jesus.(The first census in the region happened in the year 6CE, 3 years after Herod's death. This fact alone destroy's the credibility of the gospels).

There are NO references to Jesus from the many historical scholars alive during his time, somewhat strange considering his deeds documented in the bible.

Pliny the younger mentions christians, but not any references to Jesus.

The reference from Josephous was written in 92 CE & was copied from the same source as Luke's gospel. (His other reference was most likely added by a translator as it was out of context with his normal writing.)

The reference from Tacitus gets Pilate's title wrong & refers to Christus, not Jesus.

So where's the evidence for Jesus of Nazareth having ever even existed?..............aside from "personel enlightment"?
(If I said my fridge was God would that make it so?)

Elaine...........Sorry, the burden of proof is ALWAYS with the believer. I could ask you to proof there is no china teapot orbiting the sun, and we'll see how you go.

Robin..........Your first problem is you're assuming the writings of the New Testament are valid historical documents. Sorry, they ARE discredited.
Mass hallucinations? .....come on, you're assuming the books are genuine, accurate, history.

Even if the writers did want to record what really happened, it would be like if someone today tried to write the story of a person from World War II without any written information to go on, just hearsay. How accurate do you think that might be?

Answer 1

Why do you need to know!?!
If you don't believe! that is fine. You don't have to.
If you believe in Him, no evidence will be needed, and if you don't no evidence will be enough.

Ever wondered why the Muslims and the Hindus believe in Him! It is not just the Christians. Ever wondered!

Add:
Wrong. The Burden of proof is on the accuser, the plaintiff, and that is you. It is not Always on the believer.

Check your own answer for this question. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=ArqjCCjONNrbxtZOpXmAdyXsy6IX?qid=20070907072234AAkxF0Z&show=7#profile-info-DnPZDgPIaa
How do you know Jesus plays cricket!

He is or He is not. Make up your mind.

Answer 2

Well, bubbles, it looks like you want Jesus' DNA found somewhere, or His fingerprints, His remains, His photograph, or what ?
Well, perhaps I can humor you. Sadly, at Jesus' time, there were no cameras, but I can mention the next best thing.
The Holy Shroud, or Sindone, that is now in The Vatican, has been studied for a full century, and in spite of not having Jesus' birth certificate or His fingerprints, it shows that a man with Jesus' characteristics was covered with it.
This man died in a cross, suffered injuries to the head like those described in the Gospels, had the flank pierced, was flagellated while tied up to a short column, and spent a short time in the shroud. The Shroud belongs to that time and place, according to the investigations.
Besides, the marks were left by some type of unknown energy that scorched the cloth.
Many people from different faiths, and even without any faith have been studying the Shroud, and, even if they cannot say that it was Jesus' body that was covered with it, it is a very remarkable coincidence

Answer 3

Simply because someone writes an account of a life changing experience a few decades after it occurred does not automatically discredit it's authenticity. If you were to go through a huge life altering event you would probably remember every detail about it for the rest of your life.

The evidence for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ leaves no room debate. The evidence is overwhelming.

Do a search on a man named Sir Lionel Luckoo. Lionel Luckee was an atheist who is in the Guinness Book of World Records for the most court decisions in his favor. In other words he's the worlds most successful trial lawyer. Anyway, he decided to put the resurrection of Jesus Christ on trial. Gathering all the evidence and making a decision. The results were overwhelming in favor of Jesus. In fact, there is no event in world history with more evidence then the resurrection of Jesus.

Answer 4

I had a file that listed the historians thatn referred to him; but for some reason now; it is blank. I (God permitting) will do some deeper checking to see if I can find them.

Below is the quote I received some time ago (2006? via Dr. D. James Kennedy's ministry) about the subject and checked some (not all) of it out myself at a local library.
“Ah, my friends, that is far from the truth. Jesus is mentioned by other writers of ancient times: Tacitus, the historian; Suetonius, another historian; the younger Pliny, a ruler; Epictetus; Lucian; Aristides; Galenus; Lampridius; Dio Cassius; Himerius; Libanius; Ammianus Marcellinus; Eunapius; Zosimus—all make reference to Christ, and many times mention five or ten or fifteen different details of His life.”

Answer 5

You are grasping aren't you dear?

First off, I agree with Josephus' writings being tampered with, and he did NOT say Jesus was the Christ yet he does mention Jesus and this is not refuted by many scholars.

Tacitus talks of Christos=Christ=Jesus this was a no brainer back then.

Contrary to popular belief, we actually have very little documentation from ancient Rome. We have a few histories that were deemed worthy enough to be copied over the centuries and thus preserved (such as the works of Tacitus), but no one would bother to copy old tax records, and the original parchments are long since rotted away.

Researchers do not agree that a person must be alive during an autobiography to be true. There were eye witnesses that were interviewed etc.
more replies to come-brb

Answer 6

The best and only evidence, is the writings of Paul, as modified by Marcion. The case for a historical Jesus is no better than the case for a historical Hercules.

You can trace the development of the Christ myth starting with the books of Enoch, and slowly transforming into a historical figure over the course of about 200 years. This doesn't necessarily mean there was no historical Jesus somehow involved in the story, but to the extent there was, he is secondary to the unfolding mythology. i.e., if there was a historical Jesus, we know nothing whatsoever about him.

Answer 7

What a rant.

The historical records I have seen place the death of that Herod at around 4 to 3 bce.

As far as your claim that the "first" census was "3 years after the death of Herod" begs the question as to how we know it was the first, and how do we know it was 3 years after this Herod died?

And you would have us discount the witnesses of scripture out of hand as unreliable.

We would also have to reject out of hand the prophesies of the o.t. that refer to His birth, life, and death, which were so specific they even included the time of His birth in relation to Cyrus.

.

Answer 8

Well the Babylonian Talmud mentions a "Jesus" but that one was arrested and tried in the normal fashion, i.e. for 40 days he was presented and the people asked if any would speak for him. At the end of the 40 days he was either stoned or hung.

Hey! I'm just trying to help here..

Atheist...

Answer 9

I shall use the New Testament Bible to show this but I shall not assume its inerrancy or trustworthiness. I shall build my case upon two truths that most New Testament scholars agree on their veracity.

1)Jesus’ tomb was discovered empty by a group of women.

2)Jesus’ disciples had real experiences with one whom they believed was the risen Christ.

Virtually all scholars who deal with the resurrection assent to these two truths.

A) Empty Tomb

1)Resurrection was preached in Jerusalem. The Disciples of Christ did not go off to Athens or Rome to preach that Christ was raised from the dead. If they were preaching falsities, it would be evident since the empty tomb was “too notorious to be denied.”

2)Both Jewish and Roman sources and traditions admit an empty tomb from Josephus to a compilation of fifth-century Jewish writings called the “Toledoth Jeshu.” Jews were opposed to Christianity, they were hostile witnesses. Dr Paul Maier calls this “positive evidence from a hostile source. In essence, if a source admits a fact that is decidedly not in its favor, the fact is genuine.”

3)The tomb was discovered by women. Why is this important? Because in the first century Jewish culture the testimony of women was worthless. If the story of the resurrection was a legend the writers would have men discover the empty tomb, not women.

4)The empty tomb is supported by historical reliability of the burial story. New Testament scholars agree that the burial story is one of the best established facts about Jesus. Because of the inclusion of Joseph of Arimethea as the one who buried Christ. Joseph was a member of the Jewish Sanhedrin, sort of a Jewish Supreme Court. He was too well known for fictitious stories without corrections from the populace.


B) Resurrection Appearances

There is evidence that Jesus’ disciples had real experiences with one whom they believed was the risen Christ. We find in 1 Cor 15:3-8 an ancient creed spoken by Paul to the Corinthians.

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. (1 Cor 15:3-8 NIV)

This creed is generally agreed that Paul received it from Peter and James between 3 and 5 years after the crucifixion. Since they are the ones who gave the creed to Paul, Jewish Scholar Pinchahs Lapide says this creed “may be considered the statement of eyewitnesses.” Here’s something more to consider that is often overlooked from this passage. The large number of witnesses of Christ after that resurrection morning, over 500 people is another statement worthy of consideration. Paul reminds them that the majority of those people were still alive and could be questioned. He says in effect, ‘If you don’t believe me, you can ask them.’ Such a statement in an admittedly genuine letter written within thirty years of the event is almost as strong evidence as one could hope to get for something that happened nearly two thousand years ago.

Just because the disciples think they saw Jesus does not mean they really did. There are three possible alternatives.

1- They were lying
2- They hallucinated
3- They really saw the risen Christ

Which of these is the most likely? Were they lying? If they were lying, it meant that the disciples knew that Jesus had not really risen, but they made up the story about the resurrection. But then why did 10 of the disciples willingly die as martyrs for their belief in the resurrection? People often die for a lie they believe is true. But if Jesus did not rise, the disciples knew it. They wouldn’t have just been dying for a lie that they mistakenly believed was true. The disciples were willing to give up their lives for a lie they KNEW was a lie. Ten people will not all give their lives for something they know to be a lie.

To suggest that the disciples were lying is considered today by all prominent New Testament scholars as an absurd theory. We can see why almost all scholars today admit that, if nothing else, the disciples at least believed that Jesus appeared to them. But to believe something does not make it true. Maybe the disciples were wrong and had been confused by an hallucination.

The theory of mass hallucinations is another attempt at explaining the claims of the appearances of Jesus after the resurrection. The disciples record eating and drinking with Jesus, as well as touching him. This cannot be done with hallucinations. Second, it is highly unlikely that they would all have had the same hallucination. Hallucinations are highly individual, and not group projections. And what about Paul’s conversion? Was Paul, the persecutor of Christians, so hoping to see the resurrected Jesus that his mind invented an appearance as well?

Since the disciples could not have been lying or hallucinating, we have only one possible explanation left: the disciples believed that they had seen the risen Jesus because they really had seen the risen Jesus. So the resurrection appearances alone demonstrate the resurrection. Thus, if we reject the resurrection, we are left with a second inexplicable mystery – first the empty tomb and now the appearances. Therefore, with these two independent facts established – the empty tomb and the appearances – we find two separate facts to deny if we are to reject the resurrection. Even if we take each fact by itself, we have good evidence to support the resurrection.

Therefore the resurrection of Christ is indeed a fact and therefore proof of His heavenly Kingship (Ps 16:10, 30:3, 41:10, 118:17, Hos 6:2 fulfilled in Acts 2:31, 13:33, Mt 28:6, Mk 16:6, Lk 24:46). We have no choice but to conclude that Jesus was, and is, the awaited Messiah who took away the sins of the world.

God Bless
Robin

Answer 10

Mithras... Adonis... Horus... Jesus... others. There are common elements in all of these stories... virgin birth... wise men led by a star... 12 'companions'... miracles... teaching... final meal... persecution... crucifixion... ressurection after 3-days... ascension into heaven. This is the 'suffering-hero/king-god' archetype... a very common theme in those times.

Salvation cults were a dime-a-dozen in biblical times. The christ-cult was originally a midrashic up-dating of Judaism, attempting to incorporate 'modern' Hellenistic philosophical ideas. That describes the Christianity of Paul/Saul. Paul's early epistles give not even a HINT of the idea that his teachings had anything at all to do with a 'human' christ who had lived on earth in the recent past... his 'christ' operated strictly in 'heavenly' realms.

The idea for a 'human' christ did not arise until around 70AD... the Gospel of Mark. This is where the 'suffering-hero/king-god' archetype came into play... not the history of a man's life... just a series of vignettes in the archetype form, modified to incorporate reference to Hebrew scripture in order to create the illusion of prophecies fulfilled.

The Gospels of Matthew and Luke came much later... some scholars say after the beginning of the 2nd century. Both used Mark as a template, and fleshed it out with 'sayings' of Jesus, from a common source... the 'Q-document'... sayings which were Judaized versions of philosophical tidbits from the Greek 'cynic' and 'stoic' philosophies. This accounts for a lot of the discrepancies between the gospels... Matthew and Luke each invented scenes for Jesus to deliver these 'sayings'... but their scenes were different. Same sayings... different settings.

It is interesting to note that the total 'Jesus-time' accounted for in the bible ads up to no more than 3-weeks.

"There is not a single contemporary historical mention of Jesus, not by Romans or by Jews, not by believers or by unbelievers, not during his entire lifetime. This does not disprove his existence, but it certainly casts great doubt on the historicity of a man who was supposedly widely known to have made a great impact on the world. Someone should have noticed." ~ Dan Barker

"The Gospel story, with its figure of Jesus of Nazareth, cannot be found before the Gospels. In Christian writings earlier than Mark, including almost all of the New Testament epistles, as well as in many writings from the second century, the object of Christian faith is never spoken of as a human man who had recently lived, taught, performed miracles, suffered and died at the hands of human authorities, or rose from a tomb outside Jerusalem. There is no sign in the epistles of Mary or Joseph, Judas or John the Baptist, no birth story, teaching or appointment of apostles by Jesus, no mention of holy places or sites of Jesus’ career, not even the hill of Calvary or the empty tomb. This silence is so pervasive and so perplexing that attempted explanations for it have proven inadequate." ~ Earl Doherty, The Jesus Puzzle
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